South Yorkshire

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They don’t seem able to stop the yoot of sheffield from having mac10s but they will insist you fork out for an alarm. I hope derbyshire don’t start this.

my FEO did tell me I had to get a larger cabinet. I have three shotguns and three rifles all in a 3 gun cabinet. But I have glued Velcro straps in and have one hanging in the door, and the others all fit ok albeit upside down for some. he didn’t insist but I don know what difference how full the cabinet makes. He’s a decent chap but I think there is a bit of people‘s own ideas becoming policy in this area.
 
This is precisely why we need legal insurance to fight individual FL policies which are not part of statute law or even Home Office / ACPO best practice.

and the more egregious a certain organisation’s decision was to remove it without consultation, eh @Conor O'Gorman ?
 
Surely it would apply to everyone if that was the case? I've tried ringing them but no answer, sent an email and waiting for a reply, I'll keep you posted
 
I think this may well be as a result but not entirely, of Hardys gun shop, being broken into and a good number of guns stolen recently
 
I'm all for security of firearms. I'm also all for reducing the opportunity for criminals to acquire firearms illegally and all that might entail.

But if there's an increase in firearm burglary/thefts there and they want legitimate firearms owners to help stop that, then it would really help if South Yorkshire Police in their letter to FAC/SGC holders detailed what THEY are doing to combat this spate of crimes and how owners fit into this. Because, being a bit of a cynic, I suspect that crime prevention here is coming not from the police but civilians who own firearms.
 
Ladygun said:
I have emailed the BASC firearms department about this.
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That's good of you and since your members in Yorkshire will gain vicarious benefit, a sensible thing to do. I have long suggested that taking up causes that benefit all shooters is worth it to BASC - members or not.
It would be good to hear the result.
 
Been trying to ring SYFL but no answer emailed them last week and no reply so sent another today asking if they received the email, got a reply back saying they had received it and it will be dealt with in due course 🤷‍♂️
 
I’ve just had my renewal interview today with Derbyshire, earlier this year it was announced that all FAC, Shotgun certificate hold with more the 12 guns would need a monitored alarm. I hold 19 in three cabinets, so I decided to install a monitored system went for the Blink XT2 System. It was installed in under one hour Sends a full colour video and alert to my phone and iPad in under 6 seconds when the cupboards doors are opened.
FEO was extremely happy With my security arrangements, all done and dusted in under one hour all I can say is it was an excellent service from Derbyshire.:):) With This blink system you can add up to 10 cameras, they work inside or out.
 
kes said:
Any news yet?
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South Yorkshire police have brought out a firearms security policy document, specifying the increased levels of security which they now demand. This was in response to increasing numbers of firearms thefts in South Yorks, with the guns later being used in crime. They consulted the British Shooting Sports Council, who OK’d the changes. BASC were not, I understand, involved until the new rules came to light. Negotiations subsequent to BASC’s objections on behalf of members earlier this year fell foul of the pandemic. If anyone would like to see the policy document please email me at ‘ann.mortimer@basc.org’ and I will forward. Regrettably, Chief Constables have total legal authority to make the rules notwithstanding Home Office guidance, and what the shooting community thinks. This is why there is no point in pursuing judicial reviews: I am not a lawyer but am assured by those who are that JRs constitute a futile and ruinously expensive exercise when applied to such cases. It’s considered that the police would ultimately prefer firearms ownership by members of the public to cease. This is, possibly, an argument for the outsourcing of firearms licensing to a more neutral body. Sorry not to be more reassuring upon this occasion!
 
Ladygun said:
It’s considered that the police would ultimately prefer firearms ownership by members of the public to cease. This is, possibly, an argument for the outsourcing of firearms licensing to a more neutral body.
Click to expand...

Considered by who?
 
Stalker1962 said:
Considered by who?
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A former FEO, who now works for BASC on the firearms team, with whom I consulted while trying to discover what was going on in S Yorks for the person who originally posted on here (and everybody else who is interested). Although some constabularies provide a very good service, all of the changes to the rules have served to make firearms ownership less easy - correct me if I am wrong.
 
I do not want to get into a row about this.
One former FEO apparently expresses that view, that the Police would ultimately prefer firearms ownership by members of the public to cease and suddenly this is National Policy?

I have owned firearms all my life. I was a Police Officer for over 30 years - it is a nonsense to suggest that the Police would "ultimately prefer firearms ownership by members of the public to cease". It is correct that each Chief Constable has ultimate authority to decide what rules to impose within their Constabulary area. Some will be pro, some may be anti and some will be neutral. All will be concerned in reducing the risk of harm and it is proper that they do so in a manner which reflects their own geographical issues.

SYP have a spike in theft of firearms - which are then used in further criminality - they have taken steps to address it. So they should. It does not mean that they do not want lawful gun ownership to continue.

I once had a Traffic Officer tell me that airbags should be replaced with bayonets as this would encourage safer driving.
One officer saying that did not make it National Policy.
 
Without seeing the evidence of increased criminality and where and under what circumstances this'spike' occurred, its hard to be precise, however, even Chief Constables have to show that actions are proportionate to risk so my approach would be to ask for the statistics which prompted the change and go from there. I would seriously doubt any such marked departure from HOG is justifiable. Why not make it one gun for an alarm and rely on the Chief Cons get out clause to render the decision unchallengeable at law ? I'm sorry, what is the purpose of HOG if not for Guidance and thus having to justify any departures. All it takes is one action and contrary to your advice on cost, a pre-action protocol letter costs very little and a preliminary assessment by a judge would then suggest you could proceed, risk of extra costs is therefore limited as WJ have found, spraying legal challenges everywhere. Worth a few thousand of the nine million 'falling about laughing fund.
I would not accept this answer as the best BASC can come up with but then, I'm aggressive over what I consider to be making up the rules as you go along.

How far would BASC allow a Chief Constable to go before risking their members cash in support of their members interests ?
Not really good enough but did anyone expect anything else ?
 
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