sporting rifle awards

[David63]

Evening all,

sorry for the delay in responding, just been down the rugby club sorting out our spring tour of Estonia...

Anyway, to try and answer your points - yes we have our own criteria for measuring heads, but lets face it , how many ways can you merasure the length and weight of an antler? As to the rest, well its slightly subjective ins't? But the fine details are in the hands of our senior measurers. I promise that our full measuring criteria will be published on our web site soon, in case anyone is interested.

What role marco or indeed any other celebrety may play in this or any other BASC project is still up fo grabs, nothing decided yet.

Best to all

David

PS sorry if there are spelling mistakes - buit after a night at the rugby club...well you know...

D

 

[matt308]

Here's my 2 penneth.

First, Some people pay for their stalking. Some don't. Are the ones who don't, the better stalkers?

Some people value big heads, some don't. So what? Personally I think awarding medals is a little bit weird.

If the people that pay are the same as those who value big heads, they will pay for the big heads. Obviously.

It is part of human nature to want to measure and reward achievement, so if a group of people value big heads, they may think the the stalker with the most big heads is king of the big head valuing stalkers. Good for them. It is, of course, inevitable that the one who is prepared to pay the most will stand a better chance of being the king. If you are not in this group, why do you care?

If you pay, and you value big heads, and you are bitching about someone other than you being king of the big head stalkers, you are a hypocrite. You are essentially moaning about not being as willing, or able, to pay as much as them.

I don't pay. I don't value big heads. I don't give a s**t how he gets his stalking or if MPW is crowned king of the stalkers. I don't know anything about MPW's stalking experience, unlike the other impartial experts on here, but if he enjoys it enough to pay for it, and is willing to put his face in the national press in support of it, then I support him.

Having a row of medal heads, or awards on the wall doesn't automatically mean you are a top stalker. But, depending on your criteria, it doesn't mean you're not, either.

 

[willie_gunn]

Having a row of medal heads, or awards on the wall doesn't automatically mean you are a top stalker. But, depending on your criteria, it doesn't mean you're not, either.

Matt

Why does the row of medal heads have to be on the wall ?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/legacyga...ites-wife-hits-hurts.html?selectedImage=76006

Joking aside, I see from the list of BASC measured trophies published in Sporting Rifle that two of them were, I presume, shot by his sons (MX and L Pierre White). Whatever you think of the man, fair dues to him for getting his sons out stalking. Without youngsters involved we'll just end up with a bunch of grizzled old bucks that are going back

What I am personally finding increasingly difficult to understand is the continued existence of two UK trophy measuring services - CIC and BASC. Accepting that there might have been reasons for differences of opinion over measuring, the desire to provide choice to members, etc. we are now in the ludicrous situation where the new Scottish red stag record has two different measurements, where BASC scored it as exceeding the old record by 0.5 points and CIC recorded it as exceeding the old record by 3.19 points (source: Sporting Rifle, August 2011). What if BASC had scored it as less than the old record?? We now seem to be heading down the lines of boxing with the chance of different trophies being awarded the title of record! WBF, IBF, WBA anyone?? More like WTF!!

David, if you want BASC's deer measurement criteria to be different, why not take a principled stand on it and state that BASC does not feel measuring trophies is necessarily in the interests of deer or their welfare? I've read all the stuff about using it as a litmus test on the quality of UK deer but feel that's put forward as an excuse for what otherwise seems to be descending into a race to establish who has the deepest pockets.

willie_gunn

 

[norma 308]

i heard mpw got a bit jiggy behind his mrs back some time ago and she smashed his heads ,perhaps his need to shoot loads more to replace em !!

 

[cicuk]

BASC Measuring Criteria

- yes we have our own criteria for measuring heads, but lets face it , how many ways can you merasure the length and weight of an antler? As to the rest, well its slightly subjective ins't? But the fine details are in the hands of our senior measurers. I promise that our full measuring criteria will be published on our web site soon, in case anyone is interestedD

David,

I am sorry to persist, but in order to be absolutely clear, and to ensure that those who might want their heads measured in the future are fully aware of what BASC is proposing, I understand you to be saying that BASC will not be using the CIC Measuring formulae for the 67 separate species groups measured by the CIC (The CIC Red Book), and that you will be devising your own system? If so, will that also extend to what constitutes the various medal categories (The CIC Blue Book)?

Tony DW

 

[barongcw]

In terms of records, you may be interested in a recently published book by a Hungarian author Laszlo Bozoki, who listed the top European Roe heads measured by the CIC, by country. Also included is a list of the "First Hundred European Roe Deer", the first half page of which is attached. Interesting to note that the UK provides 7 out of the top 20
.View attachment 9852
TDW

Interesting, I tried to "Amazon" it but no success.

Is it in Hungarian or any other language?

 

[barongcw]

There is no 'patron' of the BASC head measuring scheme. Its simply a service we offer to our members. Contrary to what our friend above says, BASC head measurers are perfectly entitled to measure heads using a set standard of criteria and award medals and certificates as we see fit, to those heads which meet the criteria we set down.

It is BASC medal and a BASC certificate that we issue.

If somone wants a CIC medal / certificate then yes, go to the CIC.

We have some ideas for some more deer realted events stating in 2012 if we can get it all sorted and all being well Marco and others may well be involved ( with or without stock cubes) and we also want to promote further our head measuring service to our members. Nothing wrong with that.

As to awards, I would love to hear from you guys the criteria you would set down for an award for a stalker - thanks.

Best wishes

David

Do I understand you correctly that there are differences in the way you score heads compared with the CIC formula?

If yes, what are they?

 

[cicuk]

Bazoki list

Interesting, I tried to "Amazon" it but no success.

Is it in Hungarian or any other language?

It's a single volume in English, German, French, Spanish, Swedish and Hungarian! ISBN is 978-963-06-9588-6

TDW

 

[willie_gunn]

Interesting, I tried to "Amazon" it but no success.

Is it in Hungarian or any other language?

I found it here: http://www.bozoki-eujaeger.hu/index.cgi?r=&v=487380054&l=angol&mf=&p=ozbak_katalogus which presumbly is his own website? Can't see the inside but the cover has an English translation "European Trophy Catalogue".
My Hungarian is poor (okay, non-existant) so I couldn't figure out how to order it, so I've emailed for instructions - I can let you know what response I get.

From Google Translate I can devise the following, though no claims as to accuracy:

European Trophy Catalog Released: Result of ten years collection of data and covering antler medals (gold, silver, bronze) and photographs of documents.

These give an idea of how an area/region/country can be managed. Covers 20 countries, 17,500 medals with 170 photos by Wild und Hund photographer, Burkhard Winsmann Steinsel.

The book has German, English, French, Spanish, Swedish and Hungarian subtitles.

The book dimensions: 1540 grams, hardcover, color, matte cover, 472 pages, A4 size.
Price: 5,000 Florigt, so about £15 plus postage.

willie_gunn

 

[barongcw]

It's a single volume in English, German, French, Spanish, Swedish and Hungarian! ISBN is 978-963-06-9588-6

TDW

Thank you

 

[trooper3.1]

I don't get this? Is that how someone becomes an award winner, by shooting a handful of medal heads, and how does that make someone deer stalker of the year?

It has been suggested to me in the past, that sporting agents will have clients on the books willing to pay serious money, should a suspected gold medal animal animal become available from estates or stalkers when seen on their ground. Its then a case of a phone call telling the highest bidder to turn up and shoot the beast.

I have no proof of this but suspect this does occur.

I am not suggesting that our MPW did this but, having loads of cash can buy me the award then?

poor old MPW has only had a bit of TV coverage of late so he has had to lift his profile some how plus the fact he is loaded helps, maybe the odd back hander? but having said that we could do with more people on our side there is so many anti's for this and anti's for that plus a Government and police force that seem once again they can do what they like and change the law to suit them selves[Doctors and new and renewals of tickets]we need more people to help fight our cause, but we must not forget we also need to stick up for our selve's.



paul

 

[cicuk]

I found it here: http://www.bozoki-eujaeger.hu/index.cgi?r=&v=487380054&l=angol&mf=&p=ozbak_katalogus which presumbly is his own website? Can't see the inside but the cover has an English translation "European Trophy Catalogue".
My Hungarian is poor (okay, non-existant) so I couldn't figure out how to order it, so I've emailed for instructions - I can let you know what response I get.
willie_gunn

W_G

You can order from:

EUJAGER, Attn: Mr Laszlo Bozoki, Babits M.u.18. BALATONFOLDVAR, H-8623 (Hungary)
Fax: 0036 - 84-342-040 or email trofeakatalogus.bozoki@t-online.hu

Price is Euro 35 + Euro 20 P&P, so around £48 all in.

He normally needs a bank transfer of the cash to:

Konto Nr: 11775434-208 22 888
Eban Nr: HU55 1177 5434 2082 2888 0000 0000
Swift Code: OTPVHUHB
Bank: Siofok, Hungary

and then a copy of the transfer document to be sent to him with the order, either by fax or email. We received our copies within a week.

Hope this helps

Tony DW

 

[willie_gunn]

Tony

Yes indeed, thank you very much for this. I'll get in touch with him and order a copy.

willie_gunn

 

[Bashing Bambi]

The problem with the sporting press is that without advertisers they wouldnt function on sales alone, hence biting the hand that feeds them is a no no!
I recall reading about a US Shooting editor that had to call in the engineering team from a rifle company to explain why he wasnt going to publish his review of their latest product. He thought it was pap but wanted to give them the chance to put it right first.
Now compare that to tthe Shooting Times etc bunch of experts who rarely if ever explain themselves in response to critism in the letters to the editor section and if wrong are never contrite.

 

[finnbear270]

Maybe we'll be seeing T shirts promoting stock cubes next.

 

[Emma Rifles]

BOYS BOYS BOYS !!!! What a synical bunch you all are !

 

[Teckel]

Stalker of the year is probably not right, It should have been Roe Trophy Hunter of the year .

 

[David63]

Good morning,

Yes we will publish our criteria, and as i say I dare say there will be similarities as there is a limited number of ways you can measure lenght, weight, etc as i am sure you will agree.

By publishing our criteria people can see how we chose to judge a head, and they can make their own mind up, if they want it measured, who they want to use to measure it.

As I said there will be a price point advantage for BASC members.

Where is the harm in having a BASC system - whats bothering you at CIC about the BASC system?

As to if trophy hunting helps or hinders the overall status of the deer poulation, well lets here at others think about that - what effect does it have?

David

PS. On leave this week with the family (half term) so may not be able to get to the forum as often as normal

 

[Hebridean]

There appear to be more than similarities at present. All you are doing is using the CIC method but without the advantage of accredited CIC judges, and without the consent of the International Organisation. You are wrong to suggest that all measurement methods are similar. Perhaps you would find it helpful to look at others in use by alternative schemes. If BASC and it's new partners want to measure trophies why don't you develop a recognisable new method?

 

[daverl]

David BASC,
perhaps the CIC don't like you and sporting rifle hi-jacking their formulae. I suspect you as an organisation would be none too happy if another field sports group tried to steal yours.