Steel shot being ingested

[Smellydog]

Do your own research. There are plenty of papers on ingestion of lead pellets by game birds, where they then post mortem analysis along with blood and tissue sample testing. This does require scientific analysis.

I doubt many of us on SD can pick up a dead animal or bird that we find in the wild and state with confidence how it died. I certainly cannot.

You claim you have never found a dead animal or bird that has died of lead poisoning - how can you state this with any certainty?

The exception of course is those that we shoot.

As regards what is in the gizzard, again I doubt many bother opening them and cleaning them when preparing shot birds for the table. Most of the guts will go straight into the bin.

I stand by what I said earlier.
More die from agri chemical, farming practices, viruses and vehicle collisions than any amount of lead shot.
I will also bet £1000 that after one decade post lead shot ban that bird life in general is still in decline and certainly not increasing.
This whole fiasco is about appeasement by some.
Lead is used all over the world.
It is a vital element, especially for scientific research!
Not bothered any more to discuss.
Good evening.

 

[Conor O'Gorman]

All I will say is,
I have never seen a bird dying or a bird confirmed as dying from lead poisoning.

I have never seen a proven instance of self ingested lead by a bird in its natural environment.

I am not interested in theory or lab tests.

This video linked below may be of interest and the evidence of lead poisoning from lead shot in birds in the natural environment goes back to 1870s. The lab tests you refer to were to look at the physiological pathways in a controlled manner for lead shot and some other shot types.

 

[Bowland blades]

Thanks Mickey - wonder then - if daily is the case - why would they not just cough up the lead too ?

Lead in the system of a bird is far more toxic to them than it would be to a person or a dog . especially if ingested . I cant remember ever finding healed -up lead shot in a goose or duck but i have had quite a few with healed up steel . That's going back a long while
those that fly BOP are red hot about the dangers of any possible lead contamination

 

[Smellydog]

Just ordering another bag of lead shot.

What you gonna do about it?

 

[Tim.243]

This video linked below may be of interest and the evidence of lead poisoning from lead shot in birds in the natural environment goes back to 1870s. The lab tests you refer to were to look at the physiological pathways in a controlled manner for lead shot and some other shot types.

TBH Conner, the use of lead from shooters is a soft target for blame, yes there are studies also data, however when free range chickens also turkey in areas not shot over are infected with AI they are destroyed. Whole sheds of birds numbering 10's of thousands are destroyed with huge cost also the knock on effect and these birds never ingest one pellet of lead.

Then you have all the waterfowl who die from AI as the winter migration comes, there are thousands and thousands of acres of marsh land never shot where waterfowl feed yet if a few infected birds are in that same spot and waterfowl start to die the lead drum will start to bang.

Things are driven by media
Mention a tanker drivers strike every one goes and fills up so the pumps are empty
Mention pasta is in short supply then shops are emptied in hours.

A duck dies blame the shooters for using lead.

Ducks dies of AI blame the shooter as it must have eaten some lead

People choose the soft target as shooters are pinned in a corner by the media, and people providing data for that purpose.

My money says more birds die of AI than from ingesting lead shot.

We have sorted out BSE also Foot and Mouth so use the time to sort out AI as it kills with out a shot being fired
You like a bit of data.

UK bird flu costs hit £50m, poultry health roadshow told - Farmers Weekly

Costs linked to the three individual outbreaks of avian influenza (AI) affecting the UK in the past 12 months are now estimated at more than £50m.

www.fwi.co.uk

 

[Smellydog]

Its called a narrative.
Basic play the politics game.
All they want is to keep a; a job and b; the tradition of blatting hundreds of birds in a single day.
They sugar coat the image of pheasant farming as the traditional way of gamekeeping, its not.
They and their wealthy friends can pay for it.

So they court the politicians instead of telling them all to do one.
The only down side is that the small man, the man of insignificance gets trampled on, again, dressed up as " for the greater good".
Fek off....

 

[jall55]

Its called a narrative.
Basic play the politics game.
All they want is to keep a; a job and b; the tradition of blatting hundreds of birds in a single day.
They sugar coat the image of pheasant farming as the traditional way of gamekeeping, its not.
They and their wealthy friends can pay for it.

So they court the politicians instead of telling them all to do one.
The only down side is that the small man, the man of insignificance gets trampled on, again, dressed up as " for the greater good".
Fek off....

You dont need to be wealthy to shoot pheasants SD - not even to shoot hundreds
Shooting as you know is a community and that provides opportunities

 

[Liveonce]

You dont need to be wealthy to shoot pheasants SD - not even to shoot hundreds
Shooting as you know is a community and that provides opportunities

Blimey, can I join your community to shoot hundreds as the cost locally has gone past what I want to or can pay

 

[jall55]

Blimey, can I join your community to shoot hundreds as the cost locally has gone past what I want to or can pay

Course you can ! - Come and help us coppice - log - fell - feed - No problem
But dont forget its all relative isnt it
A good meal out and a few drinks 100 quid
A day at the footy 100 quid

A day shooting pheasants on a syndicate need not cost more than a few hundred quid - yes to some out of reach - but to many doable if they want

 

[jimmer.13]

I stand by what I said earlier.
More die from agri chemical, farming practices, viruses and vehicle collisions than any amount of lead shot.
I will also bet £1000 that after one decade post lead shot ban that bird life in general is still in decline and certainly not increasing.
This whole fiasco is about appeasement by some.
Lead is used all over the world.
It is a vital element, especially for scientific research!
Not bothered any more to discuss.
Good evening.

Totally agree

I will also add that my “tin foil hat” or scepticism prevented me from potentially developing myocarditis.
Remember no one in an official capacity ever lies or bends the truth to suit an agenda. Just to add still yet to catch bat flu

 

[Smellydog]

You dont need to be wealthy to shoot pheasants SD - not even to shoot hundreds
Shooting as you know is a community and that provides opportunities

I am referring to commercial massive shoots, not small voluntary shoots. Their activities are inconsequential to the environment.

 

[Conor O'Gorman]

TBH Conner, the use of lead from shooters is a soft target for blame, yes there are studies also data, however when free range chickens also turkey in areas not shot over are infected with AI they are destroyed. Whole sheds of birds numbering 10's of thousands are destroyed with huge cost also the knock on effect and these birds never ingest one pellet of lead.

Then you have all the waterfowl who die from AI as the winter migration comes, there are thousands and thousands of acres of marsh land never shot where waterfowl feed yet if a few infected birds are in that same spot and waterfowl start to die the lead drum will start to bang.

Things are driven by media
Mention a tanker drivers strike every one goes and fills up so the pumps are empty
Mention pasta is in short supply then shops are emptied in hours.

A duck dies blame the shooters for using lead.

Ducks dies of AI blame the shooter as it must have eaten some lead

People choose the soft target as shooters are pinned in a corner by the media, and people providing data for that purpose.

My money says more birds die of AI than from ingesting lead shot.

We have sorted out BSE also Foot and Mouth so use the time to sort out AI as it kills with out a shot being fired
You like a bit of data.

UK bird flu costs hit £50m, poultry health roadshow told - Farmers Weekly

Costs linked to the three individual outbreaks of avian influenza (AI) affecting the UK in the past 12 months are now estimated at more than £50m.

www.fwi.co.uk

Yep, lots of things kill birds. Here is a graph from N. America with estimates for the main human related causes of bird mortality.

Human-related Causes of Bird Mortality – Sibley Guides

www.sibleyguides.com

 

[VSS]

I am struggling to understand why Avian influenza has been brought into this discussion? Yes, it kills a lot of birds, undoubtedly more than lead does, but it has no bearing on whether or not it would be advisable to reduce lead contamination.

More people die in the UK each year from dementia than lung cancer. More than twice as many, in fact.
Should we therefore be advising people to continue smoking?

 

[Conor O'Gorman]

I am struggling to understand why Avian influenza has been brought into this discussion? Yes, it kills a lot of birds, undoubtedly more than lead does, but it has no bearing on whether or not it would be advisable to reduce lead contamination.

More people die in the UK each year from dementia than lung cancer. More than twice as many, in fact.
Should we therefore be advising people to continue smoking?

The film 'Thank you for smoking' is illuminating in this respect and we had our own moment with the headline "Lead makes you beautiful and healthy' not that long ago.

 

[Tim.243]

Yep, lots of things kill birds. Here is a graph from N. America with estimates for the main human related causes of bird mortality.

Human-related Causes of Bird Mortality – Sibley Guides

www.sibleyguides.com

The old saying Conor, "You have got to clean your own house first" So lets sort out the UK as N. America can stand on their own two feet.
As a BSAC member of an Essex Wildfowling club I am disappointed you chose data from another country in your reply
UK AI deaths for wildfowl birds against lead ingested death would be a good start.

 

[Smellydog]

I am struggling to understand why Avian influenza has been brought into this discussion? Yes, it kills a lot of birds, undoubtedly more than lead does, but it has no bearing on whether or not it would be advisable to reduce lead contamination.

More people die in the UK each year from dementia than lung cancer. More than twice as many, in fact.
Should we therefore be advising people to continue smoking?

Still ising Federal Fusion mate?

 

[Buchan]

The old saying Conor, "You have got to clean your own house first" So lets sort out the UK as N. America can stand on their own two feet.
As a BSAC member of an Essex Wildfowling club I am disappointed you chose data from another country in your reply
UK AI deaths for wildfowl birds against lead ingested death would be a good start.

Avian Influenza is hard to prevent and will remain an issue for years to come. Birds dying from ingesting lead shot isn't hard to prevent, they are avoidable deaths

This from the GWCT site

How big is the problem?
Scientists estimate that millions of birds suffer from sub-lethal effects of lead shot every year throughout Europe(34). Research estimates suggest that between 30-60,00022 and 50-100,0001 birds are likely to perish in the UK each winter as a direct result of lead shot poisoning. Long-term monitoring found that 8.1% of birds found dead between 2000-2010 had died from ingesting lead pellets(12,23). Some animals had ingested hundreds of pellets(34).

 

[VSS]

Still ising Federal Fusion mate?

That's not a tobacco I've ever heard of
Prefer Drum myself.

 

[jimmer.13]

How big is the problem?
Scientists estimate that millions of birds suffer from sub-lethal effects of lead shot every year throughout Europe(34). Research estimates suggest that between 30-60,00022 and 50-100,0001 birds are likely to perish in the UK each winter as a direct result of lead shot poisoning. Long-term monitoring found that 8.1% of birds found dead between 2000-2010 had died from ingesting lead pellets(12,23). Some animals had ingested hundreds of pellets(34).

Estimate?????? How many and in what locations? Thats a lot of birds to be picked up and tested and what species. Game song waterfowl????

8.1% of how many birds? Lots.... millions..... or a few?

Word salad and spurious propaganda. Sorry but thats how it reads.

 

[Smellydog]

That's not a tobacco I've ever heard of
Prefer Drum myself.

Take that as a yes then....