subsonic reloads for a .223

[leebut]

Hi

Has anyone got a good reliable load for a subsonic round for culling Canadian Geese using a .223, I've got a permission with loads of Geese that are fowling the land for the farmer, other guys have tried culling them with shotguns but as you can imagine two barrels let off, the Geese have gone and you might as well go back home.

My idea is to set up a dog hide along a hedgerow and pop them off with the .223 hopefully they'll fall over after the shot and not scare off the rest of them

appreciate any advise

Lee

 

[Sonicdmb73]

I did try with my 222, not geese but rabbits were the problem. However I found that I got too many ricochets. I had reduced speed to roughly 22WMR levels and didn’t pursue it further.
That said powder wise I used H4895 iirc and the 60% of max rule. It didn’t get me subsonic though. Bullets were the thin jacketed Hornet ones around 40gns iirc.
If I were trying again I would probably try cast bullets over pistol powder. Be careful as double charges are easily done and not something you want.
I did find plenty of information on some of the US based sites. I don’t recall which as it was a number of years ago now.

 

[Laurie]

If I were trying again I would probably try cast bullets over pistol powder.

I'd reckon that'd be the only way of going true subsonic in the 223 without risking all sorts of nasties like wildly varying MVs and POIs, bullet stuck in the bore.

Very light loads as per the previous post are easily done and could be made very reliable.

Do you have a chronograph? This sort of load development really needs reliable MVs and being able to see spreads.

 

[takbok]

It can be done with Viht N310 pistol powder. Look up 223 mouse fart loads using 50-55gr cast bullets.

I use 3gr N310 with 83gr cast bullet and magnum primer in my 6x45 for 1000fps. I started at 5gr and worked down until subsonic. (A 6gr double charge is safe as well - I checked by working up to it).

 

[leebut]

It can be done with Viht N310 pistol powder. Look up 223 mouse fart loads using 50-55gr cast bullets.

I use 3gr N310 with 83gr cast bullet and magnum primer in my 6x45 for 1000fps. I started at 5gr and worked down until subsonic. (A 6gr double charge is safe as well - I checked by working up to it).

Hi

Thanks for that info it’s a starting point, I’ll run a few rounds through my chrono and check accuracy

Really appreciate your information

 

[leebut]

I'd reckon that'd be the only way of going true subsonic in the 223 without risking all sorts of nasties like wildly varying MVs and POIs, bullet stuck in the bore.

Very light loads as per the previous post are easily done and could be made very reliable.

Do you have a chronograph? This sort of load development really needs reliable MVs and being able to see spreads.

Hi Laurie

I have a magnetospeed chrono to check consistency and speeds in my loads, I didn’t want to have any issue like you have mentioned such as stuck bullets in the bore, hence the questions first use other peoples experiences and knowledge.

Any load development I can check at the range before taking the rounds onto the fields

 

[Heym SR20]

Why not just a 22lr. A 40gr bullet going at just below the speed of sound won’t care whether its been fired from a rimfire or a loaded down 223.

 

[palmer_mike]

Why not just a 22lr. A 40gr bullet going at just below the speed of sound won’t care whether its been fired from a rimfire or a loaded down 223.

My thoughts absolutely.
I have worked up pretty good loads in the past for .223 but really you’re not going to see any benefit of them over a 22lr subsonic round.
On the other hand the .22lr ammo is cheaper, readily available and just so much less hassle

 

[Sonicdmb73]

Why not just a 22lr. A 40gr bullet going at just below the speed of sound won’t care whether its been fired from a rimfire or a loaded down 223.

My thoughts absolutely.
I have worked up pretty good loads in the past for .223 but really you’re not going to see any benefit of them over a 22lr subsonic round.
On the other hand the .22lr ammo is cheaper, readily available and just so much less hassle

There could be. If said bullet was heavier, at the same speed you get proportionately more energy than the 40gn 22lr

 

[palmer_mike]

There could be. If said bullet was heavier, at the same speed you get proportionately more energy than the 40gn 22lr

Terminal ballistics may not be as simple as that as you’re not going to get much (if any) expansion at subsonic speeds from most jacketed bullets?

 

[sako85708]

The problem I have always found shooting Geese with a subsonic 22rf, is that they never die without a lot of flapping and fuss even with headshots. We get big numbers on the wheat at work and they graze it off like sheep, I now use the 22 250 you shoot just as many and it's a lot more fun !!

 

[nick.308]

as already mentioned above from my experience you wont shoot any more with a subsonic load. I actually found shooting them from a longer range helped eg 200yds is good and less flapping with .223 high velocity with a moderator.

 

[User00033]

as already mentioned above from my experience you wont shoot any more with a subsonic load. I actually found shooting them from a longer range helped eg 200yds is good and less flapping with .223 high velocity with a moderator.

^^^This

When culling Canada Geese, we use .223 Rem with lots of DPT suppressor baffles, from a good distance. It’s a big bird and not difficult to hit cleanly. You have to tune your load to account for the extra suppression but that only takes a few minutes POI adjustment. Shoot in pairs, get yourselves properly sorted out before you take your first shots and it’s not too difficult to take half a dozen between two of you, just gotta be fast.

If you observe them for a while you can see which direction they fly when they take fright. Put three or four guns under their flight path in cover and collect a few more on their way out. Couple of hard out sessions on the geese and they don’t want to come back anymore. Driving geese with dogs towards shotguns is quite common now.

We have terrible problems with these bird smashing spring pasture, and fouling the paddocks and dams, particularly in the low pastures reserved for ewes with triplets or twins. They are now a nationwide pest on a massive scale. On flat pasture with dams or lakes, public enemy number one.

We also have big problems with feral peacocks, which scratch open our wrapped haylage bales, causing the bale to rot. They get the same treatment. Wiliest birds I hunt, peacocks.

 

[Sonicdmb73]

Terminal ballistics may not be as simple as that as you’re not going to get much (if any) expansion at subsonic speeds from most jacketed bullets?

I wouldn’t use jacketed. As I have previously stated even the thin jacketed “Hornet” type bullets failed to give consistent expansion at low speed. Worse still the were as if not more prone to ricochet than the 22lr I was intending to replace (in that specific location).
However a heavier (around 60gn was mentioned earlier) soft cast bullet with a hollow point. Would at the same subsonic start point as the 22lr be carrying more energy.
The research I did seemed that a heavy cast bullet and pistol powder was the way most people went. However I didn’t follow it any further as the need (specific piece of land) ceased to be my problem.

 

[Eric1933]

Hi, I can give you a subsonic load I use for quiet target practice,but not sure about goose shooting? It groups just about MOA in my .223, it's 7.5gr N32c or Tin Star, with a 62gr bullet,twist is 1 in 9. Hope this may help?

 

[25 Sharps]

Hi

Has anyone got a good reliable load for a subsonic round for culling Canadian Geese using a .223, I've got a permission with loads of Geese that are fowling the land for the farmer, other guys have tried culling them with shotguns but as you can imagine two barrels let off, the Geese have gone and you might as well go back home.

My idea is to set up a dog hide along a hedgerow and pop them off with the .223 hopefully they'll fall over after the shot and not scare off the rest of them

appreciate any advise

Lee

Use a .22 it’s designed for what you are trying to do, then realise it’s not going to do what you think it’s going to do and switch back to .223 or a shotgun.

Out of interest which general licence are you shouting them under?

 

[Bowland blades]

Being wildfowl I should use 410 moderated with bismuth . No major ricochet risk ( care still needed ) and you can run subsonic even use felt wads
Slug ? No not for me , get tgem in the head and high neck 20 yard numberv6 bismuth loads

 

[Sonicdmb73]

Hi, I can give you a subsonic load I use for quiet target practice,but not sure about goose shooting? It groups just about MOA in my .223, it's 7.5gr N32c or Tin Star, with a 62gr bullet,twist is 1 in 9. Hope this may help?

Just to be clear is that a cast or a jacketed bullet?

 

[Eric1933]

Jacketed

 

[the prowler]

I would just stick to a .22lr. You can even use slightly faster cci ammo