The Forestry Commission Deer Management and Deer Licences

[AWW]

+1 here too. Makes more sense to me that we go and stick our oar in, after all they look after OUR forests!
Personally I've had enough of the keyboard warriors banging on about lamped out blocks rented out at high rates, perhaps its time to look the man in the eye and ask for a straight answer on this and other topics - copper only bullets, paperwork requirements for leases, public access into a rented block and the associated liability, high seat shooting tests, ATV qualifications, fair access to all - North & South of the border, poaching control on rented blocks - DIY or is their some help (its my money they're taking after all)? etc etc.

Take your pick or have I missed one?

Well Said Treedave!!

 

[Apache]

I am working so not coming.

Friday nights do tend to clash with other commitments, I imagine for a lot of us. I can get away with a week night much easier.

None of you techno-wizzards want to film the evening and upload it to YouTube for those that can't come?

 

[8x57]

+1 What better opportunity to hear whats to be said and feed into the future process - there's bound to be an expansion of the whole leases and licenses thing, so may as well make ourselves heard when we have the chance rather than moaning and whingeing and not applying.

That's the right attitude to go with Muddy, an open mind and willing to hear the guy out. After all he is only the messenger.
I heard Norman speak at the NGO deer branch meeting last year on the same subject. He was a good speaker and I think all that were there came away with a much greater understanding of how the FC works. Not everyone may agree with some of their policies but at least you will understand where they are coming from. One thing that struck me was how devolved government has had a great impact on FC policies in different parts of the U.K.

 

[jimmy milnes]

Mereside and I hoping to be there so looking forward to putting faces to names.
Regards Jimmy

 

[polester]

I'm going to try and get there depending on work commitments

 

[scubadog]

None of you techno-wizzards want to film the evening and upload it to YouTube for those that can't come?

Youtube it or live stream it would be great.
I live at the other end of the country so its not realistic for me to come though would appreciate still being able to watch it.

Edit: Just emailed BDS NW Chairman - Asked him if streaming / you tube is possible.

 

[scubadog]

I have spoken to BDS NW who have told me that streaming/podcast/youtube/video of this is not possible.

That being said the South west branch have offered to host something along the same lines though local to those in the south west.
With this in mind I will start another thread to see if there is enough interest from members to attend one in the south west region.

 

[arron]

i will be going hopefully ,with a couple of other guys , should be interesting !

 

[finnbear270]

Looks like Charlie's gonna get a pass this Friday night then!, see if I can get back to the yard in time to hook up with the boys.

 

[finnbear270]

Andy, I'll fetch a cheque, if that's O.K.?

 

[NickJ]

I sadly won't be able to make it tomorrow night but have heard Norman speak before and would recommend it to all.
Nick

 

[limulus]

Gents, if anyone else wants quad sticks bringing up to the meeting I can make them in hardwood but youll have to finish oiling them yourselves as theres insufficient time now to complete them.
i have enough time to make finished softwood ones

see you all later

Tony

 

[scubadog]

so..... how did it go?

 

[Ronin]

Very informative and frank talk by Norman who conveyed information about the background behind the change in FC Licensing and how one should prepare and complete the application process. It was very clear that successful applicants are not the ones with the most cash, moreover those who had prepared, planned and done their homework.

I was also shocked to hear that several people had failed not one but two attempts at the basic DSC marksmanship test (which is a annual requirement) for those with FC Licences…..

Again, emphasising the need for regular range sessions and a base level of training.

Excellent evening I thought - though I have to say I am slightly biased...


Good venues, good room, easy to get to, over 50 people attended from all over the North.

Nice to see many new faces there and a dozen or so people from the site, who I hope will also pass honest comment.

​Guys, over to you:-

 

[limulus]

Great venue and an interesting presentation of how the FC now processes an application.
I'd still like clarification of the scoring with respect to the money tendered. Although Norman said that each tender was marked as a % of the maximum tendered it wasn't clear (to me anyway) whether the next lowest bid was given 5/6 or a true %age of the total. I.e. If redmist tenders £1000 as the highest bid and I tender 990 redmist would score 6 and me 5 or me 5.94?
Several times Norman mentioned the FC are not making any money from this exercise. If this is the case this would warrant stopping having private individuals having deer control licences and a return to FC rangers in the future surely? This begs a couple of questions.
Are the costs of having licenses really greater than those of having a ranger?
is this process simply a justification to retain more rangers as the licence holders are shown to not be able to attain the requisite cull figures?
Norman also mentioned that should a licence holder reach the expected cull by say the end of November that they would expect you to continue to cull does/hinds until the end of the season or you'd be down the road. Whats the management principle behind that?

 

[6pointer]

As clear as mud and the fact that you can fail the shooting twice and still get a lease tell,s me that the FC do not really put any importance on that part of the tender.
While it is nice that they explain but in no way does it stop the back slapping that goes on in the FC. Now does it Red Mist

 

[finnbear270]

An evening well spent for me,Just one item I couldn't square the circle with, No limit on the number of licences any one individual can hold, Miffy broached the subject well & I think we were not alone in the room on our thoughts on this .



P.S. Tony, you really do have a well developed handshake!!

 

[Ronin]

As clear as mud and the fact that you can fail the shooting twice and still get a lease tell,s me that the FC do not really put any importance on that part of the tender.
While it is nice that they explain but in no way does it stop the back slapping that goes on in the FC. Now does it Red Mist

Dave

you missed the point - fail the DSC shooting test and you're out.


You do not carry on in the application process and obtain a licence, fail the test, your application ends there.

 

[Ronin]

My understanding of the scoring system is that the maximum points awarded during an application UP TO INTERVIEW Stage (where the points are nullified) is 100.

The tendered fee for the lease can only every score a maximum of 6 points, so if one person bids 1000 and another 500 the first person scores 6, the second 3 and so on in whole numbers.

This makes the bid pretty inconsequential, the emphasis being on a persons ability with their controllers to do the job effectively, safely and interact with the public (lets face it, no one wants bad press, least of all commercial entities like the FC)

Re the management issue - your cull figure is 10 animals and you achieve this half way through the season, the FC will want you to carry on shooting - I think you have to look at it from a business sense, they want the trees protecting, they're not interested in deer being in the forests they manage, so they ask you to continue culling. Doesn't mean to say you have to continue killing….

I understood the comments about one person being able to obtain the licences for controlling numerous areas of ground - in reality, that again is a logistical nightmare, "juggling" stalkers on one area of ground is bad enough - I speak from experience here…..

 

[6pointer]

Andy dont take this personally but that is a load of crap. So is the need for a deer dog.So is the points system infact the whole system is loaded so that they can bring in the three or four aplicants. shut the door in the interview room and give a good back slapping to who ever they like. Sadly that is not a clear transparent system and is way off being fair for all.
I remember a statement made to me by a chap very high up in the FE he stated he would love to run three or four good leases when he retired. How fair you feel this is but i could suggest it is crossing the line of morality. These are public owned areas these chaps the FC FE DI have all taken vast sums of public cash as a wage and a pension. I wonder how many leases were run by ex commissioner chaps or how many have there own private lands and call it a perk.
May i add i know some one that failed the shooting test and was told its ok mate have another go we will get you through.