The head shot

[Foxyboy43]

I found this an interesting and thought provoking video which shows clearly the risks associated with the much discussed/recommended/reviled head shot. In this case the fallow apparently moved its head at point of firing and took the bullet in the face just above the nose exiting under the eye; as evidenced not a fatal shot. Fortunately the animal ran only a short distance and a second head shot killed it instantaneously. Easy to be judgemental when it goes wrong of course and I make no comment - the range did not appear to be great, the animal was standing broadside at the first shot and in an open field and the stalker was using a steady quad-stick platform; from what is shown many would probably have taken the same shot - for all the usual reasons.
Sooo the three-parter question is - what would you have done in these circumstances - why - and perhaps more fundamentally should this have been put on youtube??
As an aside - I found it difficult to tell because the video was “fast forwarded” at that point, but did the stalker chamber a round and then lean a loaded rifle against his jeep?

 

[gixer1]

Headshots seem to be based on greed a lot of the time - game dealers wanting “head shots”
To reduce waste…or culls where numbers have to be achieved and in my opinion welfare is sacrificed in many cases.

My take on it is there are a few limited times I head/neck shot…and they are limited - many times I will wait for a better shot and if it doesn’t present itself then so be it.

One would be in high cover - where the only parts you see is the neck and head and it would have to be reduced ranges (>100yards)

The other is a beast standing face or ar*e on where it most likely won’t turn (between trees etc) and the range stipulation would be the same.

Both I would want a steady rest.

Just my take on it. The pain that must be involved between the first shot and second is unimaginable and if that animal is able to run you may be trying to take a 300 yard moving shot.

Regards,
Gixer

 

[zambezi]

wait for a better shot and if it doesn’t present itself then so be it.

Agree.

More importantly, per the video sequence, a perfect broadside chest target presented at the point the shooter took the first head shot. So why not take that shot?

 

[HonestJohn]

Had not been in an open field and the deer stopped for a follow up, that could have gone very badly and resulted in a long slow death because this idiot plays games with ethical taking of game.
Follow up shot should have been H/L/Shoulder without hesitation, esp. 'had' it been the scope had been knocked (hence first shot was off), a far better 2nd shot for several reasons would be H/L/High Shoulder.

First class example of poor practice, but he doesn't look like the sensible type who will learn

There are game dealers who will take non-head shot game, put ethical shot taking first and sell to them.

 

[omulally]

As an aside - I found it difficult to tell because the video was “fast forwarded” at that point, but did the stalker chamber a round and then lean a loaded rifle against his jeep?

Certainly looks like it, but took care to mention that the bolt was up when he was showing the scope POV later.

 

[rem284]

Well, the rifle seemed to be loaded when he placed it against the pickup which is a definite no no. Don't point firearms at anything you don't want to destroy or kill. I have had several safety mechanism fail, luckily or more by good handling there was no damage done

Head shots, can go wrong but so can body shots. I think the worse shot placement is a neck shot. The person who is taking the shot has to deal with the consequences of his/her actions. He was lucky that the beast stopped and I think if I had messed up the 1st shot aiming for the head I think I would have shot the animal in the chest with the second shot but his crosshairs may have just been on the head and having to change will cost time and in that time the beast could have been off again. The other thing is he didn't have a dog with him.

I personally don't video any of my shooting because it's another distraction and job that I don't need. He was brave to put the video on YouTube but in doing so shows he honest and also shows how it doesn't always work out as it should.

 

[gixer1]

Had not been in an open field and the deer stopped for a follow up, that could have gone very badly and resulted in a long slow death because this idiot plays games with ethical taking of game.
Follow up shot should have been H/L/Shoulder without hesitation, esp. 'had' it been the scope had been knocked (hence first shot was off), a far better 2nd shot for several reasons would be H/L/High Shoulder.

First class example of poor practice, but he doesn't look like the sensible type who will learn

There are game dealers who will take non-head shot game, put ethical shot taking first and sell to them.

To be honest this was my thought - I was just being a bit diplomatic…

 

[gixer1]

Well, the rifle seemed to be loaded when he placed it against the pickup which is a definite no no. Don't point firearms at anything you don't want to destroy or kill. I have had several safety mechanism fail, luckily or more by good handling there was no damage done

Head shots, can go wrong but so can body shots. I think the worse shot placement is a neck shot. The person who is taking the shot has to deal with the consequences of his/her actions. He was lucky that the beast stopped and I think if I had messed up the 1st shot aiming for the head I think I would have shot the animal in the chest with the second shot but his crosshairs may have just been on the head and having to change will cost time and in that time the beast could have been off again. The other thing is he didn't have a dog with him.

I personally don't video any of my shooting because it's another distraction and job that I don't need. He was brave to put the video on YouTube but in doing so shows he honest and also shows how it doesn't always work out as it should.

You are correct, body shots can go wrong…but the margins for error are probably 5 times that of a head shot…if you are (depending on the species) 5” in 3 of the 4 directions of a body shot it will most likely be a fatal hit, if you are 1” either way on a head shot it most likely will not be a fatal hit.

Just the way I see it.

 

[Malxwal]

You Tube, how appropriate is that platform... We all screw up, but the best way to do it is take rangey head shots side on.

 

[omulally]

Certainly looks like it, but took care to mention that the bolt was up when he was showing the scope POV later.

I asked him about it in the comments and he then pulled the video...

 

[rem284]

You are correct, body shots can go wrong…but the margins for error are probably 5 times that of a head shot…if you are (depending on the species) 5” in 3 of the 4 directions of a body shot it will most likely be a fatal hit, if you are 1” either way on a head shot it most likely will not be a fatal hit.

Just the way I see it.

I cannot disagree with the margin of errors and I have done this job long enough and have enough deer under my belt to know.

That is where if a headshot is going to be taken then the precision of shot placement is much more important so the controls have to be greater. By controls I mean, time and timing, an accurate setup ie scope, rifle, ammo, platform and personal ability.

On a personal note I will prefer to go for the shoulder shot but there are times when I weigh up the balance of everything in front of me. I wouldn't hesitate to shoot a hind in the head for instance if I have just shot the calf and no other alternative shot placement is on, there's a chance of not being able to get the hind if I wait much longer and the conditions are favourable to successfully execute the shot. The other scenario would be having shot the hind first after thinking it's a yeld hind and suddenly a calf appears. Calf only presents itself where a head shot is the only humane way of securing it and preventing a welfare issue.

So if we are saying under no circumstances must head shot must be taken I think it could lead to some problems. It is up to the person who is there at that moment in time. I don't get any penalty for chest shot deer so that is not an issue.

 

[r judd]

Funny how its always a big deal when deer are concerned. Never when when shooting vermin. Am sure plenty of rabbits have run off with no nose on.
Always annoys me when the head shooting deer debate comes up as for some reason SOME people put them in a different category than other quarry. Wrong.
Theres just as many deer get gut shot and manage to make cover.
Things dont always go to plan in the field its how its dealt with what matters

 

[rem284]

Funny how its always a big deal when deer are concerned. Never when when shooting vermin. Am sure plenty of rabbits have run off with no nose on.
Always annoys me when the head shooting deer debate comes up as for some reason SOME people put them in a different category than other quarry. Wrong.
Theres just as many deer get gut shot and manage to make cover.
Things dont always go to plan in the field its how its dealt with what matters

I agree that no matter what animal is going to be killed it needs to be killed as humanely and ethically as possible no matter what species it is.

Your comments re gut shot deer making cover could well be true. The difference is a gut shot deer is more likely to die a bit quicker than a head shot gone wrong beast even if a attempt of following it up fails. The work for the dog is usually more difficult on a head shot gone wrong when compared to a gut shot too

I think it is about doing our utmost to prevent anything other than a humane ethical kill. Followed by the fact that we do our best to put it right when it does go wrong.

 

[Heym SR20]

A head shot is one tool in the armoury of skills.

It absolutely minimises meat damage and for those who are selling venison fully butchered in consumer packed portions loosing shoulders etc makes a big impact.

Game dealers reflect the meat loss in their price they pay for in fur venison.

I learnt my stalking on an estate where just about every cull animal was head shot, as pretty much everything was butchered on site and the boss would not allow any shot damaged into the process. They sold direct to households, restaurants and hotels.

This was 30 years ago. I used an estate rifle which a Sako TRGS in 25-06 with a 10x42 S&B scope. Rounds were loaded with a light ballistic tipped varmint type bullet. It was very flat shooting out 250 plus metres. This was pre readily available rangefinders, chronographs etc.

The ground was open hill. Mostly grass with some heather. We worked in pairs. We only ever took shots with the deer looking straight at you or straight away. And when those bullets hit they caused massive damage to the head. You hardly needed a knife to remove them.

Once set up we would quickly take several out of a group. And then we would wait a good five to ten minutes. A deer hit in the head or neck will be stunned and drop straight away. If you have hit it properly it will never get up again and bleed out rapidly through the wounds.

If you have only clipped it, it will drop and then a few moments it will start getting to its feet. By waiting you are in a position to shoot it again immediately. I only recall having to do this once.

But if you are in woodland, or even open ground with heather or tall grass you cannot see it starting to struggle, and if you go forward too quickly then you will never catch up with it.

Head shooting is really not pleasant with all the brain and eyes falling out, and dealing with 20 plus beasts in a day takes its toll.

Things have moved on. I still do take head shots as and when needed. Last one was a young buck that had got itself between a six foot drystone wall and a deer fence that was six foot the other side. Only shot available was a headshot.

But in these days of monolithic bullets you really don’t need to take headshots to maximise meat recovery. Last buck I shot, peregrine bullet did go through the offside shoulder. I had to cut away about a three inch circle of meat till I got to clean un-damaged and unbruised meat.

If I had been using a conventional bullet that complete shoulder would have gone in the bin.

But the body shot on a deer has so much more room for error that it quite rightly is by far the preferred shot.

Things can very easily happen between squeezing that trigger and bullet hitting. Deer can move, effect of wind upwards, downwards or sideways, or you can simply pull the shot.

A perfect head shot is immediately fatal, but you have a small target. But so to is a properly executed chest shot when the bullet takes out the heart, blood vessels and major nerve bundles. And if its slightly off it is fatal within a few seconds. Even a bullet in the liver will quickly bleed out.

A bullet in the guts is another matter entirely. Yes it will die, but it will take considerable time.

But after any shot it is well worth waiting 10, 15 or even an hour if in dought before approaching. If it is badly shot that time will allow a deer to bed down stiffen up, bleed out and hopefully die peacefully without additional stress.

But as ever it is always worth taking the time to make the first shot count. Those of us who having been stalking, hunting for a number of years will have had that sickening feeling of not knowing and wounded animal, and of loosing an animal that you know you have it. It has happened to me on three occasions and I do not want it to happen again.

 

[gixer1]

I agree that no matter what animal is going to be killed it needs to be killed as humanely and ethically as possible no matter what species it is.

Your comments re gut shot deer making cover could well be true. The difference is a gut shot deer is more likely to die a bit quicker than a head shot gone wrong beast even if a attempt of following it up fails. The work for the dog is usually more difficult on a head shot gone wrong when compared to a gut shot too

I think it is about doing our utmost to prevent anything other than a humane ethical kill. Followed by the fact that we do our best to put it right when it does go wrong.

I also consider the welfare regardless if it’s a rabbit, fox or deer…I understand many don’t but I’d like to think most consider welfare regardless of species.

Probably one of the worst for this would be driven game as what is considered to be “good sport” or “top class” are high birds which decreases the margin for error. However, I no longer partake in that…happy for others to but it’s just not my cuppa anymore.

 

[yellow belly]

Missed seeing the video before it was pulled. What channel posted it?!

I found this an interesting and thought provoking video which shows clearly the risks associated with the much discussed/recommended/reviled head shot. In this case the fallow apparently moved its head at point of firing and took the bullet in the face just above the nose exiting under the eye; as evidenced not a fatal shot. Fortunately the animal ran only a short distance and a second head shot killed it instantaneously. Easy to be judgemental when it goes wrong of course and I make no comment - the range did not appear to be great, the animal was standing broadside at the first shot and in an open field and the stalker was using a steady quad-stick platform; from what is shown many would probably have taken the same shot - for all the usual reasons.
Sooo the three-parter question is - what would you have done in these circumstances - why - and perhaps more fundamentally should this have been put on youtube??
As an aside - I found it difficult to tell because the video was “fast forwarded” at that point, but did the stalker chamber a round and then lean a loaded rifle against his jeep?

There isn't an answer to head shooting, it's an individuals choice. However the key is the follow up if it goes wrong; I have a GWP and he doesn't let much get away if asked to go get it. And still I prefer a Hiliar shot placement.

 

[User00053]

Head shooting all good and well and individuals choice until it goes wrong, and faced with a hind with her bottom jaw smashed and mobile on open hill, very sobering and thought provoking.
Also shot fox in face front ways on 222 destroyed bottom jaw very much alive, no matter what bad things happen, personally do not take head shots no more.

 

[Leec6.5]

Personally, I don’t do head shots, I have blown the nose off a Roebuck many years ago, I did get it, I did and it suffering, and I swore blind after that I would never do it again!

Over the years, I have tracked too many jaw shot animals to count, just for the sake of an extra 10 or 20p per kilo at the Game Dealer . It’s just not worth the hassle or ball ache!

Now, if someone calls me to track a headshot animal, I don’t even bother going, because the chances of success or slim to none, so in all honesty, don’t bother

 

[User00053]

Without wishing to sound dramatic would say more stalkers, hunters or whatever are generally more concerned and ethically correct and caring than most considering the horrors of what we do to each other at war every day.
Based on that we should all give ourselves a big pat on back.

 

[Foxyboy43]

Missed seeing the video before it was pulled. What channel posted it?!



There isn't an answer to head shooting, it's an individuals choice. However the key is the follow up if it goes wrong; I have a GWP and he doesn't let much get away if asked to go get it. And still I prefer a Hiliar shot placement.

Caught it on Youtube - now gone!