The head shot

[devon deer stalker]

Sometimes I think it's a macho thing, and in my experience often attributed to some new stalkers.
I mentored a friend a couple of years ago, within a very short time he was sending me photo's of his head shot deer, if he wants to come stalking with me again I will insist on no head shots, as I do to all my clients.
It was very early on in my deer stalking journey I DID shoot deer in the head, I think it was the 5th deer it went wrong, it turned it's head and I made a terrible error, thankfully I quickly put another in it.
I do sometimes get penalised by the game dealer, I can live with that, but I can't live with injuring a deer.
I do wonder how many head shooters think they have missed, but have not!

 

[User00053]

Sometimes I think it's a macho thing, and in my experience often attributed to some new stalkers.
I mentored a friend a couple of years ago, within a very short time he was sending me photo's of his head shot deer, if he wants to come stalking with me again I will insist on no head shots, as I do to all my clients.
It was very early on in my deer stalking journey I DID shoot deer in the head, I think it was the 5th deer it went wrong, it turned it's head and I made a terrible error, thankfully I quickly put another in it.
I do sometimes get penalised by the game dealer, I can live with that, but I can't live with injuring a deer.
I do wonder how many head shooters think they have missed, but have not!

Snouted deer, reportedly some survive!

 

[VSS]

Head shots have their place, but anyone who thinks a head shot is either a clean kill or a clean miss doesn't know what they're talking about.
I head shoot all my park deer (range up to 100yds, mostly off sticks) and have very specific reasons for doing so. I personally won't contemplate head shooting wild deer, but I do know people who have the skill to do so reliably and I don't have a problem with that.
At least in the park I know that if something goes wrong I will find the deer. The same cannot be said for free-roaming animals, and in the event of a messed up head shot the deer will remain very mobile and leave very little (if any) trail.
I've shot enough deer now to know that even "text book" shots can go wrong, whether that's head or heart.
Whatever the situation, no-one should ever feel pressured to take shots that are beyond the limit of their capabilities, and there's no place for big egos in stalking. The saying "pride comes before a fall" is very apt, and unfortunately the fall all too often involves the unnecessary or prolonged suffering of a deer.

 

[samdk]

They have their place and can be a valuable tool.
Confidence, conditions, range, shooting position and competence/skill are all key factors to consider first.

 

[Foxyboy43]

As the video has now been pulled since my original post and for information to supplement my original post - at the time of the first shot the fallow was broadside on and was hit on the lhs about a third of the way between its nose and lhs eye, the bullet exited on the rhs just forward of the eye but was not a catastrophic wound - indeed there was not much blood evident in later footage. What the bullet did in “pencilling” through the upper jaw/face is unknown but one could reasonably expect profound difficulty in eating and though I am no expert in deer feeling pain it would probably be quite significant, if not extreme. I make no call on whether that wound would eventually prove fatal. The follow-up shot was fired after a short dash and the animal again was broadside, this time the shot entered the head between the lhs eye and the lhs ear with resultant instantaneous collapse.
Having read the various responses the common view is that headshots should only be taken in very clearly defined circumstances, these are articulated in the replies and the final decision lies with each of us as we view the prospective beast to be shot.
With regard to the question I posed on whether the video should have been posted I have mixed feelings about this - there is no point in denying that occasionally things do go wrong in our beloved sport so to me, it is, on balance, acceptable to put this in the public domain, it is well presented - indeed one could perhaps even describe it as ”educational”. I am therefore saddened to learn that the video has been pulled, I hope this was not as a result of my raising it in the first place. As an observation a quick search of Youtube will show very many much worse (i.e. graphic) videos which rejoice in titles such as “Best Deer Head Shots” and “25 Exploding Deer Heads” each with accompanying slow motion footage - I have to ask myself what purpose do these really serve? That said it is not lost on me that virtually live and on the same channel one can view Russian or Ukrainian soldiers i.e. someone’s son, brother or husband being blown to pieces by artillery or drone-dropped grenades, again in slow motion. Where does it stop? Is there a line and where should it be drawn; will we soon have a “Best Exploding Russian/Ukrainian Father,/Son/Brother” collection with regular updates offered - a sort of“Stay tuned folks for next week’s thrilling instalment”. An inevitable argument, much wider and certainly (thank Christ) not for this thread.
All said and done and perhaps an inevitable conclusion to my original think-piece post maybe I am just an old man clinging to the wreckage of what I used to know and hold dearly as “common decency” and “having certain (now largely obsolete) standards” but to my simple mind these latter videos and their like have no place in the public domain.
Nuff said.

 

[User00053]

Never saw the video in question and would not be interested in watching really, though no doubt interesting and informative from ballistic perspective maybe?
Seems many thermal scopes have the ability to record shots so folks just getting brought up with concept and nothing much cannot be either researched or watched, even going back to the “snuff video footage” available moons ago for those interested.
Must admit used to find footage of various hardcore acts people have on their phones weird, but guess it happens and folks with phones just record it and it gets circulated, happens in Africa watched worldwide.
Personally not really interested in exploding deer heads or worse, but for some reason many are along with a lot of other stuff I find odd in the modern world

 

[Dunwaters]

Its a bit counter-intuitive but for head/neck shots you’re best served by a soft bullet at high velocity, something that dumps a lot of energy on contact. A slow to expand bullet wastes a lot of energy on the back stop.
With the soft fast bullet any solid hit will knock the animal down, it might not stay down, but it will definitely react to the hit.
Head shots generally make for a messy kill, probably not something you want to photograph and share, I certainly don’t want to see it, but head and upper neck shots have their place.

 

[Bowland blades]

very little point to a head shot in nearly all " deerstalking " night culling when your real close and dont want a run yes, so long as its not exactly a challenging shot .

 

[Scotty99]

So here is my take on this and it’s only my take on this others must do as they see fit. I’m a recreational stalker first and foremost, in doing so I may be also reducing deer damage and managing the population to keep it healthy but primarily I’m a recreational stalker not a deer manager or forestry contractor. As such I can be very selective about the shots and I take and can always take the deer on another day if a preferred shot does not present itself. As a result I only ever take broadside on chest shots, I’m only taking deer for myself, family and friends so meat damage can be dealt with. I’ve never taken a head or neck shot and never will. Having had to locate and kill several badly shot deer (not mine) in my time I take every precaution I can to ensure a clean kill. As a recreational stalker doing it for pleasure, I would take no pleasure in wounding an animal so therefore take all the steps I can to avoid it. So far, touch wood, I’ve never not been able to recover a shot animal although several have run a short distance before piling up.

 

[User00053]

Think the majority of experienced folks who shoot deer for whatever reasons take pride in doing the job well from selection through to larder regardless of status or shot placement, numbers game or otherwise. Edit. Well The ones I know and have known for sure.

 

[ejg]

I've taken plenty deer with head and neck shots but have gone away from these shots because one is not sure if the body bleeds out properly. OK if you get to the deer quickly with the heart pumping to bleed it properly. I had ruined two animals because the meat was full of blood on both we just took too long to get to them. Some game dealers in Germany do not except head shot animals.
edi

 

[Taff]

Only with a 22,

 

[Dunwaters]

I've taken plenty deer with head and neck shots but have gone away from these shots because one is not sure if the body bleeds out properly. OK if you get to the deer quickly with the heart pumping to bleed it properly. I had ruined two animals because the meat was full of blood on both we just took too long to get to them. Some game dealers in Germany do not except head shot animals.
edi

Thats strange.
With head shots the heart keeps pumping and drains the carcass very quickly, same thing with neck placement.
But I do get there as fast as I can to help things along If required.

 

[ejg]

Thats strange.
With head shots the heart keeps pumping and drains the carcass very quickly, same thing with neck placement.
But I do get there as fast as I can to help things along If required.

Nothing strange, head or neck shot does not automatically mean you hit large blood vessels .... where will the blood go?
I have head shot deer with just about no blood whatsoever, same with neck shots that are placed on the upper side of the spine.
edi

 

[Dunwaters]

Nothing strange, head or neck shot does not automatically mean you hit large blood vessels .... where will the blood go?
I have head shot deer with just about no blood whatsoever, same with neck shots that are placed on the upper side of the spine.
edi

With a head or upper neck shot it pretty well does guarantee it, especially with frangible bullets, and the heart continues to pump until it runs dry.
The blood goes out through the exit wound or pools in the wound cavity.

 

[ejg]

With a head or upper neck shot it pretty well does guarantee it, especially with frangible bullets, and the heart continues to pump until it runs dry.
The blood goes out through the exit wound or pools in the wound cavity.

Well... I have seen enough of very little or no blood on occasions. It is also the reason why some game dealers do not except head shot animals. Yes you might have less chance of this happening with very frangible bullets however that only moves the problem away an inch or two. Look up where larger blood vessels run in an animal and it will make sense. One example with a side on head shot of a Sika Stag that had not a single drop of blood. Bullet did not expand. I shot that animal because it had survived a 308 a-max neck shot two or three months earlier from a guest. Shot went over the spine, just a bad shot.
In the last years we are seeing a trend to tougher game bullets or mono metal, often with the goal to reduce meat damage. Not as good for head/neck compared to older a-max or ballistic tips.
edi

 

[samdk]

Well... I have seen enough of very little or no blood on occasions. It is also the reason why some game dealers do not except head shot animals. Yes you might have less chance of this happening with very frangible bullets however that only moves the problem away an inch or two. Look up where larger blood vessels run in an animal and it will make sense. One example with a side on head shot of a Sika Stag that had not a single drop of blood. Bullet did not expand. I shot that animal because it had survived a 308 a-max neck shot two or three months earlier from a guest. Shot went over the spine, just a bad shot.
In the last years we are seeing a trend to tougher game bullets or mono metal, often with the goal to reduce meat damage. Not as good for head/neck compared to older a-max or ballistic tips.
edi

The head and brain has a huge blood supply, it is almost impossible that this can be shot without a large bleed.

 

[Dunwaters]

Well... I have seen enough of very little or no blood on occasions. It is also the reason why some game dealers do not except head shot animals. Yes you might have less chance of this happening with very frangible bullets however that only moves the problem away an inch or two. Look up where larger blood vessels run in an animal and it will make sense. One example with a side on head shot of a Sika Stag that had not a single drop of blood. Bullet did not expand. I shot that animal because it had survived a 308 a-max neck shot two or three months earlier from a guest. Shot went over the spine, just a bad shot.
In the last years we are seeing a trend to tougher game bullets or mono metal, often with the goal to reduce meat damage. Not as good for head/neck compared to older a-max or ballistic tips.
edi

We appear to have had very different experiences, but your deer, shoot them your way.
I would also respectfully suggest if you’re getting consistent pass through, with failure to expand on head and neck shots, that the bullet is very likely to behave the same way regardless of where it impacts.

 

[VSS]

I've taken plenty deer with head and neck shots but have gone away from these shots because one is not sure if the body bleeds out properly. OK if you get to the deer quickly with the heart pumping to bleed it properly. I had ruined two animals because the meat was full of blood on both we just took too long to get to them. Some game dealers in Germany do not except head shot animals.
edi

You're not going to ruin a carcass through not bleeding it immediately. Trying to bleed a dead animal is largely a waste of time anyway.
Seriously, if you're having a highseat session, you're not going to climb down for each deer shot, otherwise you aren't going to shoot very many. You leave them where they fall, and deal with the whole lot at the end. Maybe an hour or more later.

 

[yellow belly]

Well... I have seen enough of very little or no blood on occasions. It is also the reason why some game dealers do not except head shot animals. Yes you might have less chance of this happening with very frangible bullets however that only moves the problem away an inch or two. Look up where larger blood vessels run in an animal and it will make sense. One example with a side on head shot of a Sika Stag that had not a single drop of blood. Bullet did not expand. I shot that animal because it had survived a 308 a-max neck shot two or three months earlier from a guest. Shot went over the spine, just a bad shot.
In the last years we are seeing a trend to tougher game bullets or mono metal, often with the goal to reduce meat damage. Not as good for head/neck compared to older a-max or ballistic tips.
edi

Nielson sonics have 3 petals that come away when the brass plunger expands upon contact of just a few mm. I have head shot deer using them with damage very similar to BT lead projectiles.