To 6.5 or not to 6.5 that is the question!

[25 Sharps]

This is really helpful, thank you. I had assumed that boar would be .270 minimum and that 6.5cm would be borderline on red stags, but I suppose as VSS said it’s where you put it. I do like the idea of a lightweight 270 for hills and a mid weight 6.5cm for the rest/range… I imagine many rifles could be a slippery slope however!

I’m probably not the best person to speak to on that front, I have 7 rifles conditioned for deer plus a .243 conditioned for fox and AOLQ .

That said only 3 get used regularly for deer, 25-45 for roe and muntjac, .280 for fallow and bigger and 6.5x55 that covers everything. If specifically going for larger deer the .280 is always the first out of the cabinet. If I had to go to one rifle the .280 would probably be it but it is a big lump of a rifle, 26” heavy barrel with an SL5 in a macmillan A4.

The 25-45 is much lighter with a 25” sporter profile and no mod, a much nicer rifle to carry about.

(The other 4 are deer legal range rifles that are primarily for target but also conditioned for deer)

 

[Rutland lad]

I read about how one rifle/calibre can deal with everything. My experience is not that.
I have in the past shot Muntjac with my mild hadloaded 300 Winmag. Carcass damage was acceptable, and actually better than with a 243. However, I could never see any reaction to shot, and the case/bullet/powder mix meant it was more expensive to shoot than it needed to be. I use that for reds in Scotland now and I have shot a single wild boar with it on a disastrous trip to Hungary.
My go to is my 6.5x55 Swede. Muntjac to big sika - no problem, and as a bonus I can see the reaction to shot every time. It’s also cheaper to run. It’s a sweet calibre and out to 200m its perfect for me.
As previous member has already said, the calibre is only the starting point. You can then refine that decision with bullet type and bullet design exactly what you want.
I shoot exclusively with monometal and have done for nearly 15 years now, so I can honestly say the market has exploded with differing designs since then. I’m sure you’ll find the right one for you and your rifle. Just take your time and experiment.

 

[KimE]

Long action…? Did Hornady not design it to be used in a short action…?
I admit to building the one I have on a TRG42, but only because it’ll rebarrel to the next project…7mm PRC

Hornady design the PRCs as cartridges and then showed rifle manufactorers look we have a new cartridge design rifles for it. As they doesn`t fit the shortaction longaction consept they had to make new actions or change older systems.

 

[KimE]

This is really helpful, thank you. I had assumed that boar would be .270 minimum and that 6.5cm would be borderline on red stags, but I suppose as VSS said it’s where you put it. I do like the idea of a lightweight 270 for hills and an mid weight 6.5cm for the rest/range… I imagine many rifles could be a slippery slope however!

6,5 are legal for boar, red deer in most parts of europe some countries has 7mm as legal limit. As for Sweden 6,5 are used for boar, red deer, moose, bears and a lot of smaller animals. 270 are working just the same as 6,5*55/cm not seen as a more powerful cartridge to get a higher performance level its 300wm, 9,3*62, 45-70 who may give a noticeable bigger reaction on the animal, shortening the running distance (of a deadly hit animal) with about 10m.

 

[tackb]

Don't listen to me. I haven't got much experience of different calibres, and I mostly don't know what I'm talking about!
However, I am completely won over by the 270.
Mine is a cranky old rifle that cost me £175, and looks like it ought to be in a museum. It wears a basic scope (fixed parallax, 3-9 mag, simple reticle) and no mod.
But the beauty of it is I just point it at the deer, squeeze the trigger, and they drop down dead!
I don't have to worry about holdover or dialling or any of that nonsense: Any deer up to about 250 yards is just point and press. Beyond that I do not know, as I haven't tried, and probably never will.

Honestly, what's not to like?

And the creedmoor will do exactly the same but less kicky and shouty…….

 

[tackb]

Corrected that for you

You didn’t correct anything you just made a lot of unnecessary noise and fuss , like the 270 really

 

[jthyttin]

Why would a 6.5-06 be any issue at all being virtually the same as 25-06 but with better bullet choice?

If you want larger capacity case for shooting heavier (=longer bullets) there's a definite difference between 55mm and ~63mm case. You basically cannot run into COAL issues with 6.5x55(AI), but 25-06 has about 8mm less space for bullet in the mag.

Up until recently, quarterbore didn't have anything heavier than 120gr so it's a non-issue.

 

[25 Sharps]

If you want larger capacity case for shooting heavier (=longer bullets) there's a definite difference between 55mm and ~63mm case. You basically cannot run into COAL issues with 6.5x55(AI), but 25-06 has about 8mm less space for bullet in the mag.

Up until recently, quarterbore didn't have anything heavier than 120gr so it's a non-issue.

But still has more case capacity than the 6.5x55 even in ackley form.

 

[Scotty99]

For stalking distances it won’t matter and probably not worth chopping in your .243 for a 6.5 creedmore unless you are going to do a lot of long range target shooting, then it might be worth the cost / hassle.

 

[jthyttin]

But still has more case capacity than the 6.5x55 even in ackley form.

Capacity is not everything, usually you want to keep the boattail-to-fullcaliber junction of the bullet ahead of the neck/shoulder junction of the case. The junction is at 47mm in 6.5x55 and estimating from 30-06 at about 54mm in 6.5-06.

 

[KimE]

I have hard to see a reason to make a 140gr 6,5mm bullet to go faster by making a wildcat cartridge. Its better to spend money on a better scope and a rangefinder.

 

[25 Sharps]

If you want larger capacity case for shooting heavier (=longer bullets) there's a definite difference between 55mm and ~63mm case. You basically cannot run into COAL issues with 6.5x55(AI), but 25-06 has about 8mm less space for bullet in the mag.

Up until recently, quarterbore didn't have anything heavier than 120gr so it's a non-issue.

There are other cartridges based on 30-06 with longer, heavier bullets, .280 for example.

The 63 mm case starts out with more capacity! Even if the bullet is sat further back in the case there is more room in the case, particularly if it has an ackley shoulder . Plus the 6.5-06 could be loaded to 3.340” as 30-06, so there is 190 thou extra breathing room for case capacity for a 6.5x55AI at 3.150”.

You’re talking about an issue that doesn’t exist.

 

[25 Sharps]

I have hard to see a reason to make a 140gr 6,5mm bullet to go faster by making a wildcat cartridge. Its better to spend money on a better scope and a rangefinder.

Hard to see a reason why I would shoot a .223 case necked up to .257 for deer when I could just shoot a .243 or one of my 6.5s. But I do, because I want to and because I can.

 

[cjm1066]

For a newbie, I would advocate the CM, lots of the reasons have been outlined in this thread. The additional point is that the 243 is bullet sensitive, some wouldn't group with the 105g, few 80g are good for deer. Go to nonlead and it fine with 80g.

The CM is more obligingly so easier for the novice.

However if you have a 243 with a load that works for you, the deer won't notice the difference.

 

[big ears]

For a newbie, I would advocate the CM, lots of the reasons have been outlined in this thread. The additional point is that the 243 is bullet sensitive, some wouldn't group with the 105g, few 80g are good for deer. Go to nonlead and it fine with 80g.

The CM is more obligingly so easier for the novice.

However if you have a 243 with a load that works for you, the deer won't notice the difference.

For a newbie I would advocate buying one rifle and it being a 7mm. Either a 7-08 or the 7x57.
As a 6.5 fan and a very happy one for 12 years I wish I had bought a 7mm at the start. Just better all round. Knock down if the 308 with the recoil of the 6.5.
To the Op the real difference between the 243 and 6.5 on deer will be negligible unless you go above 250m. So save your money. If you want a change then look at one rifle and I would suggest looking at 7mm.

 

[tackb]

For a newbie I would advocate buying one rifle and it being a 7mm. Either a 7-08 or the 7x57.
As a 6.5 fan and a very happy one for 12 years I wish I had bought a 7mm at the start. Just better all round. Knock down if the 308 with the recoil of the 6.5.
To the Op the real difference between the 243 and 6.5 on deer will be negligible unless you go above 250m. So save your money. If you want a change then look at one rifle and I would suggest looking at 7mm.

i don't understand this , sorry

of the 308/7-08/6.5cr the 308 has the most recoil followed by the 7-08 and then the 6.5cr all things being constant as much as possible and and muzzle energy is in the same order but at 300m it's reversed with the creed just pipping it , thats using 150gr in the 308 and 140gr in the other two to try and keep it even

so all things being as equal as possible the 7-08 does not have 6.5 recoil but 308 'knock down' power ?

they are three extremely similar rounds with very similar performance and personally i would recommend the lowest recoil whilst making the necessary energy to get the job done , lower recoil equals easier to shoot well and better shot placement in my experience?

 

[jack243win]

Totally blowing it out of proportion in my opinion, choose the right bullet, all three of those calibres will kill deer. I’ve had runners using tough constructed bullets in the .308 far more than I’ve had using soft points in .243. I was following the illusion I needed to have ample penetration, hoping the .762” surface area would “knock” a small framed roe deer over in its tracks, however, it had quite the opposite effect. Choose the rifle you can afford to shoot and feel most comfortable with. If you are wanting to shoot long range repeatedly AND shoot deer, you will be better off with some kind of semi weight hybrid like a SAKO S20 in a forgiving caliber like CM or .308. CM is a better option for shooting in the wind, but both will have you hitting steel out at range, no problem.

.243, 6.5, 7mm, .308 - ALL kill deer.

Regards

 

[Bowland blades]

Sorry, but I genuinely don't understand what you are trying to say here. Trump speaks rubbish and has a huge following. Backfire gives people talking points, has a great media persona, and presents a lifestyle that is a dream for most shooters, but content-wise, clicks come before reality - which is how YT mostly works.

Well yeah trump does say some unusual off the wall things but unlike the present leader of the USA , he has proved himself to be playing with a full bag of marbles and has one heck of a better reputation regards the economy, law and order and is a very, very successful business man . In leading America he met Crazy Rocket man in North Korea and talked condos and did not throw away Afghanistan and those who helped peace and human rights for so many .
Now how about Biden ? A man who openly does not like the British and constantly shows clear signs of being short on his marbles ! Along with what was an even worse exit than the previous Vietnam withdrawal mess.
There is a great possibility with Trump being re-elected if you look at the stats and the mess Biden made of Borders and with it the flooding of the deadly Fentanyl
But hey everyone has and gets an opinion .
Personally i dont rate any of the U-tubers , they pander to follower numbers and sponsorship above all else . Most of them dont honestly shoot that much and when they do they spend that time yacking

 

[KimE]

Hard to see a reason why I would shoot a .223 case necked up to .257 for deer when I could just shoot a .243 or one of my 6.5s. But I do, because I want to and because I can.

I would go 280AI instead to be able to use heavyer bullets .338/06 If you want to have more punch. A .257*45 would be great for much of the hunting I do birds, beaver, roe.

 

[25 Sharps]

I would go 280AI instead to be able to use heavyer bullets .338/06 If you want to have more punch. A .257*45 would be great for much of the hunting I do birds, beaver, roe.

I have been advised against .280 AI by a couple of people in the know and to be honest the straight .280 does everything I need it to throwing a 130 gr copper at 3200 fps.

The 25-45 sharps is a cracking calibre, I love mine, it has to be loaded top end for 1700 ft-lb but i can get there with a couple of combinations and no apparent pressure signs. hardly any recoil and it hits hard, I’ll get it out on fallow at some point.