Travelling with loaded magazines

[Jeff8861]

The majority of firearms offences relate to criminal use ( a person who doesn't hold a certificate). If you have a certificate and you act accordingly you shouldn't have an issue. Remember you have a certificate so you will have a lawful authority and a reasonable excuse.
You need to look at this from a reasonable and practical point. I'm out on a permission stalking or vermin control. I need to cross a road onto adjacent permission. It's 10 metres away do you really need to unload and remove mag. The next permission is five miles away. Do you need the aggravation of being stopped and grilled by an officer who isn't upto speed on the legislation for the sake of doing an unload.
I'm not aware of any certificate holder that has been prosecuted for carrying a loaded firearm whilst out stalking vermin control etc.

 

[FastMacK]

My club's guidance for all of us that travel to shoot with them was bolt out, mag out, mag empty and gun flagged and bagged. Being a target shooter I don't see a need to do otherwise but I can see the case for those "working" with firearms. Given the extra scrutiny we as FAC holds suffer, I'll continue to carry empty.

 

[Dalua]

Is the point that there seems to be no bit of law that, in the case of a person in possession of a S1 firearm and ammunition for it, differentiates between that firearm being 'loaded' or not?

That seems to me to be why there is no definition in law for 'loaded' with respect to S1 firearms - but only for S2 and airguns, for which there are indeed laws where unloaded and loaded items are considered differently.

Does that sound right?

 

[VSS]

But is that opinion of the authors?

From my reading of the book, I am confident that that is the law. You'll have to read it yourself if you remain uncertain.

 

[reiver]

I'll have a look when I get a chance, and see what is referenced.
It's a book that all stalkers should have a copy of, imo.


I don't think there is such a law.
Provided you have "lawful authority or reasonable excuse", you can have a firearm (loaded or not), anywhere you like as far as I can make out.
Section 19 of the Firearms Act 1968 (England, Wales and Scotland), and article 20(1) Firearms (Northern Ireland) Order 1991 are the relevant bits of legislation I think.

Seriously, if you had a permission with a road running through it and, if while stalking a deer, you had to cross from one side of the road to the other, would you unload your rifle? I certainly wouldn't!

I used to shoot some land on an estate that has a council adopted road on (think county park )it but the ground it is on belongs to the estate still .
We used to shoot of the road

 

[Heym SR20]

There is a world of difference between having ten rounds in a leather wallet, that need to individually loaded into a magazine that is then put into the rifle and bolt closed, to having a fully loaded magazine that can taken from your pocket into the rifle and bolt closed.

Loading individual rounds takes a little time, loading a full mag and chambering does take a bit more time.

There is debate in law, but I would suggest in the event of a trial it would just another bit of supporting evidence.

Personally I don’t like detachable magazines - they just get lost.

And I do count rounds out into a leather wallet and back in again. It helps prevent that stray cartridge being left under the drivers seat, or getting into the lining of your coat that is then flagged as you go through airport security. You do loose brass in the field, but it is easy enough to account for that. At the end of the outing - an empty space in the wallet, there is one deer in back of truck, one shot fired, empty is somewhere in heather.

 

[VSS]

I used to shoot some land on an estate that has a council adopted road on (think county park )it but the ground it is on belongs to the estate still .
We used to shoot of the road

I do the same, where I have an unfenced council road running through my land.

 

[Dalua]

From my reading of the book, I am confident that that is the law. You'll have to read it yourself if you remain uncertain.

I think it might the actual definition in law for 'loaded' with respect to S2 guns and air-weapons.

It is also a sensible practical definition of 'loaded' for general consideration - but Im not sure that a definition of 'loaded' for S1 firearms exists, as the law doesn't seems to differentiate loaded from unloaded for S1 items.

 

[VSS]

I think it might the actual definition in law for 'loaded' with respect to S2 guns and air-weapons.

It is also a sensible practical definition of 'loaded' for general consideration - but Im not sure that a definition of 'loaded' for S1 firearms exists, as the law doesn't seems to differentiate loaded from unloaded for S1 items.

This is getting too complicated for my feeble mind

I think I'll just stick with my trusty floorplate mags. No ambiguity that way. It's either loaded or it's not!

 

[Pedro]

I’ve got this teacup. I’ve just had a look at it and it appears inside it, there’s a storm.

 

[Dickie]

After all this how long before some bright spark realises they’ll get a few brownie points with the boss and hey presto a new condition is born
The holder may not carry a loaded magazine in his pocket for any of the for mentioned firearms in a public place alongside the holder must give up on any common sense, think for themselves and keep calm it’s the SD.

 

[south-nofolk-stalker]

After all this how long before some bright spark realises they’ll get a few brownie points with the boss and hey presto a new condition is born
The holder may not carry a loaded magazine in his pocket for any of the for mentioned firearms in a public place alongside the holder must give up on any common sense, think for themselves and keep calm it’s the SD.

Who will know if you have the magazine in your pocket?

Your hardly going to go into ALDI and broadcast it are you

I tell you, the future of deer stalking is buggered

 

[Dickie]

Who will know if you have the magazine in your pocket?

Your hardly going to go into ALDI and broadcast it are you

I tell you, the future of deer stalking is buggered

Yes but unless it’s no longer in print most people would shrug their shoulders when you declare I’ve a loaded magazine.

 

[rem284]

I think there is a definition in law that states a firearm is regarded as being loaded when ammunition is attached to it. So even if you have no cartridges in the magazine but ammunition in but a cartridge in cheek piece, then it is loaded

 

[Dalua]

I think there is a definition in law that states a firearm is regarded as being loaded when ammunition is attached to it. So even if you have no cartridges in the magazine but ammunition in but a cartridge in cheek piece, then it is loaded

I'd be interested to see a reference for this. I've not heard it before.

 

[rem284]

I'd be interested to see a reference for this. I've not heard it before.

It was quoted on a firearms course I attended

 

[rem284]

I'd be interested to see a reference for this. I've not heard it before.

 

[Dalua]

I wonder where they got that from. It doesn't seem a particularly useful definition.
The one from our current law is:
a shot gun or an air weapon shall be deemed to be loaded if there is ammunition in the chamber or barrel or in any magazine or other device which is in such a position that the ammunition can be fed into the chamber or barrel by the manual or automatic operation of some part of the gun or weapon

The alternative understanding that I find useful is that it's loaded if you can pick it up and, by simply operating part of it, make it ready to fire.

 

[south-nofolk-stalker]

.

 

[south-nofolk-stalker]

Show me that in an official capacity from the home office