Like sitting on here moaning more like !
You sound like such an experienced person that could have so much to give but your attitude really does stink
Trophy Hunting
- Thread starter jall55
- Start date
Like sitting on here moaning more like !
You sound like such an experienced person that could have so much to give but your attitude really does stink
Conor O'Gorman
Well-Known Member
We are each entitled to our views and what works best will vary from country to country and indeed different parts of each country, whether in African countries or worldwide, but perhaps it's up to local communities to decide what works best for them - and here in the UK we have the government supporting a private members bill that is based on opinion rather than evidence - seeking to impose the views of a relatively few people in this country on millions of other people worldwide by attempting to undermine hunting tourism from the UK. And this is not really about 'trophy hunters' or conservation, it's about the concept of paying for a hunting experience and that can cut both ways.
Some food for thought from an exchange in the 25 January debate on the Bill:
Kerry McCarthy - The Bill is obviously about preventing the import of trophies into this country, but the hon. Gentleman just spoke about showing leadership. A Danish company called Limpopo & Diana Hunting Tours is promoting hunting trips in Bedfordshire—on the Woburn estate, I think. People pay up to £25,000 to shoot stags. Clearly, people from other countries come to this country for trophy hunting, so I hope the Bill influences other countries to follow suit.
Henry Smith (he submitted the Bill) - I am grateful for that intervention. I paid tribute to the hon. Lady last night in a different animal welfare debate in the main Chamber, and I am happy to repeat my appreciation for all the work she does to highlight animal welfare issues in Parliament. She has a strong record on that. I was not aware of the very sorry example that she mentions. The Bill is about preventing the import of trophies hunted from endangered species, but I very much support her wider point. Personally, I find it abhorrent that people should be flying into this country to shoot stags, but that is beyond the scope of the Bill.
Jon P
Well-Known Member
How about if all the meat from the “trophy” goes into the human food chain? -
who going to fund these subsidies to replace the income from trophy hunting ?
Rascal2018
Well-Known Member
Im sure every post i have seen of yours is to stir the pot?
HonestJohn
Well-Known Member
I do like a good stew, so F you
In my simple view, there are two clear divisions to trophy hunting.
Those who do it for sport & the trophy with little regard for the carcas, although the carcas seems to get utilised locally from the limited things I’ve read. U.K. trophy prohibition may curtail this hunting, but I imagine it will continue so long as the opportunity to shoot these animals exists with or without importing the trophy. It really needs the host country to impose prohibition on hunting to make an meaningful impact.
Then those who trophy hunt where the carcas enters the food chain. Regardless of whether the hunter retains the carcas or it gets sold. So long as it’s managed properly & sustainably then I don’t see what the issue is retaining trophies from these animals. Pretty much what happens in the U.K. Shoot a deer keep the trophy and either retain the carcass or it gets sold in to the food chain.
Those who do it for sport & the trophy with little regard for the carcas, although the carcas seems to get utilised locally from the limited things I’ve read. U.K. trophy prohibition may curtail this hunting, but I imagine it will continue so long as the opportunity to shoot these animals exists with or without importing the trophy. It really needs the host country to impose prohibition on hunting to make an meaningful impact.
Then those who trophy hunt where the carcas enters the food chain. Regardless of whether the hunter retains the carcas or it gets sold. So long as it’s managed properly & sustainably then I don’t see what the issue is retaining trophies from these animals. Pretty much what happens in the U.K. Shoot a deer keep the trophy and either retain the carcass or it gets sold in to the food chain.
HonestJohn
Well-Known Member
If the ‘trophy’ is one to be proud of, ie. One that should be culled, going back, aged, sick, etc. Then yes, it’s all ok and hopefully in line with management plans.
If based one size and ego, then it’s not really ‘on’ as it becomes a money and wall-hanger issue.
Hard to regulate, virtually impossible sadly. The solution lies with the hunters acting in the right way, which will determine demand
Indeed
Heym SR20
Well-Known Member
To get good trophies requires good management of the whole ecosystem to allow animals to flourish.
African, or for that matter any other trophy hunting, is focused on taking out a few old surplus animals that are well beyond their breeding age. It is a highly selective process, and the money payed by hunters keeps those areas wild.
And they provide a highly valuable supply of protein from wild lands - most of which in Africa are in Tsetse areas so unable to support cattle ranching.
In most trophy areas hunting is very regulated. You get a licence to shoot one animal, and that animal usually has to over a certain size / age. Usually the hunting party will be accompanied by a government official game scout, or the trophies have to examined by government / game department etc.
So it really is not turn up, pays your money and shoot biggest animal you like.
Without the income these areas would very quickly become farmland, subject to mining etc and be unable to support very little wildlife and natural ecosystems.
The exception perhaps are the game ranches of South Africa and Namibia. 30 years ago these were extensive cattle ranches running a few scrawny cattle producing very little. Most of the game was long gone.
Then the realisation dawned that actually the veld wasn’t really suited to cattle and they have restocked by a mix of game animals and bush has been allowed to regrow. The African Veld requires a mix of grass, scrub and trees - especially acacia / mopane- for the whole ecosystem to work, in particular the trees act as a water and nutrient pump. And this can support a high density of grazers and browsers.
Now there is a larger population of game than ever before. The surplus is culled for meat providing both food and income. With older animals being sold for trophy hunting. Yes some is riding in the back of a pickup, but a lot is on very extensive and hard hunting. Far harder than most UK deer stalking.
I really see very little difference between having a kudu or roebuck on the wall. It’s a memory of an animal that was pretty much at the end of its natural life and would soon have been eaten by something.
African, or for that matter any other trophy hunting, is focused on taking out a few old surplus animals that are well beyond their breeding age. It is a highly selective process, and the money payed by hunters keeps those areas wild.
And they provide a highly valuable supply of protein from wild lands - most of which in Africa are in Tsetse areas so unable to support cattle ranching.
In most trophy areas hunting is very regulated. You get a licence to shoot one animal, and that animal usually has to over a certain size / age. Usually the hunting party will be accompanied by a government official game scout, or the trophies have to examined by government / game department etc.
So it really is not turn up, pays your money and shoot biggest animal you like.
Without the income these areas would very quickly become farmland, subject to mining etc and be unable to support very little wildlife and natural ecosystems.
The exception perhaps are the game ranches of South Africa and Namibia. 30 years ago these were extensive cattle ranches running a few scrawny cattle producing very little. Most of the game was long gone.
Then the realisation dawned that actually the veld wasn’t really suited to cattle and they have restocked by a mix of game animals and bush has been allowed to regrow. The African Veld requires a mix of grass, scrub and trees - especially acacia / mopane- for the whole ecosystem to work, in particular the trees act as a water and nutrient pump. And this can support a high density of grazers and browsers.
Now there is a larger population of game than ever before. The surplus is culled for meat providing both food and income. With older animals being sold for trophy hunting. Yes some is riding in the back of a pickup, but a lot is on very extensive and hard hunting. Far harder than most UK deer stalking.
I really see very little difference between having a kudu or roebuck on the wall. It’s a memory of an animal that was pretty much at the end of its natural life and would soon have been eaten by something.
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Leec6.5
Well-Known Member
In the 20 years I have been kicking about the shooting world as a keeper/ stalker I have seen, shot and experienced more that most.
I have given more than most and I have seen so much wasted and in your words my attitude stinks for a reason.
I have experienced the damage that big bag game shooting, trophy stalking and trophies can do.
And in my opinion the shooting industry is better off without.
Rascal2018
Well-Known Member
You just enjoy yourselfI do like a good stew, so F you
Rascal2018
Well-Known Member
And here we have the issue.
Everyone is defending their part. I dont do this but you do that! I will look after what i do after they take away your bit.
I watched it happen with hunting….. everyone turned their backs on that as shooting wasnt the same. But what happened…. They came for shooting.
I dont care if its your discipline or not, i feel that we should all stand up for eachother.
Antis will chip away at each part of shooting and watch us infight until there is nothing left….. then they chase fishing!
Namman
Well-Known Member
Agree.
I am astounded at some of the posts on this site which appear to be based on the "I'm alright Jack principle "
I have hunted Africa more than a dozen times and yes I have taken trophies .
All part of a management plan.
No part of the carcase is wasted and all is used to benefit the local community.
How strange is it that those countries which encourage trophy hunting have the most wildlife? The most land set aside and increasing, for sustainable hunting.
Seems to me to be neo colonialism to try and tell these nations how to manage their wildlife.
Namman
Well-Known Member
I don't think you are very well informed !
dobber
Well-Known Member
The sad reality is that the word "Trophy" has been bastardized and abused, majority of the animals being brought back are mature animals, similar to other mature animals I have upon my walls, some of the trophies I cherish the most aren't the largest
I remember that rhino that was hunted a few years ago, someone paid $350k - $500k to hunt it, talk about an ego boost, dang rich Americans
Wait a minute, lets get some facts
This Rhino was too old to breed
This Rhino killed several other male Rhinos as they were rivals and young enough to breed, old boy didn't like that
The outfitter likely made out ok for the hunt with his staff as well
The Government made out well, employed several for a couple of months (this was an extra charge for the hunt)
The Saving Rhino program made out like champs with somewhere in the neighbourhood of 75% of the hunt going back into research and protection
Yup, that dang ego only Trophy hunting sure is a bad thing
I remember that rhino that was hunted a few years ago, someone paid $350k - $500k to hunt it, talk about an ego boost, dang rich Americans
Wait a minute, lets get some facts
This Rhino was too old to breed
This Rhino killed several other male Rhinos as they were rivals and young enough to breed, old boy didn't like that
The outfitter likely made out ok for the hunt with his staff as well
The Government made out well, employed several for a couple of months (this was an extra charge for the hunt)
The Saving Rhino program made out like champs with somewhere in the neighbourhood of 75% of the hunt going back into research and protection
Yup, that dang ego only Trophy hunting sure is a bad thing
As i have said before maybe you need a new hobby - your passion and love for it appears to have gone and you are just polluting our waters.
20 years is nothing actually - maybe you came into it without understanding and appreciating the basics ?
Will BASC have a voice in this? Or any influence with the MP’S.As the voice of shooting etc.
Stalker62
Well-Known Member
Not entirely sure you have fully understood, how 'proper' Hunting operates in Africa.
As shooters,hunters,stalkers whatever we call ourselves.whether we hunt abroad and bring back trophies or stay in the uk and collect heads and antlers.If they get this Bill passed it will only be a matter of time before they come for something else.
What newspaper did you research to get all your information from.These African Countries that have trophy hunting in are poor and corrupt so how the subsidies will get to the people I don’t know,and what will you do with the people who have no jobs now that hunting is gone and now there are no animals as they have no value so have been killed and eaten but not replaced.Trophies do Not necessarily have to be the biggest or best beast in the herd but under this legislation they will all be banned from import.Who is to say what is an endangered species is which is what the bill is supposed to be about I personally don’t know of anybody that would want to hunt an endangered animal.These people will only be interested in an out right ban on shooting believe me this is the thin edge of the wedge and it’s already starting to divide us.
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