Trophy Hunting

[sikamalc]

And it's not just Africa either. Parts of Asia have adopted similar schemes.

Also what makes people think that thus will just stop with so called trophy hunting.

 

[Mike L]

$7K USD plus heathrow fee's, etc. to hang something on the wall..do I need to elaborate.. for example,,,give that money to the african people where you shot the animal..

just saying...

I don’t think you understand hunting in Africa.

 

[stevec]

Me too!

View attachment 299713

Alas, twas not to be.

So...I have picked my favourite six photos from the trip, and I am having them put into one long frame, and that will go up in my bedroom.

One of those photos will be 'my' Kudu, but it will include my Hunting pal and the PH on the day - they were part of the story and thus very much a part of the memory that day.

God, I love Africa - just wish I could afford it.

I couldn't agree more. A photo is all I have. I am happy with that but I realise that my very modest trip was only really made possible by others willing and able to pay the enormous trophy fees for dangerous game. I wish I could take a bus load of MPs to see what is actually happening on the ground and the difference that the trophy fee from hunting an old, past breeding age elephant makes.

The scale of the conservation project was breathtaking, particularly when you see it in the context of the surrounding area, which was illegally deforested and all wildlife poached out and what the area had been before trophy hunting recommenced.

 

[HonestJohn]

I don’t think you understand hunting in Africa.

what I'm saying, at least from a personal perspective is,,, if I was to throw money at a hunt in africa, I'd rather return with the memories than hurling vast sums at exporting trophies, and use the 'trophy' money pot and leaving a monetary contribution towards charity, either there or elsewhere.

obviously as this thread has proved, there's great dichotomy of opinion on this very sensitive subject - and thankfully, we're all entitled our opinions and feelings on the subject.

 

[Jon P]

Hunting abroad is not cheap, but other then the taxes paid I have met most of the people who have benefited from me being a customer of theirs . From the land owner, outfitters, PH’s , trackers , skinners etc, I have been to the same outfitter on two occasions,2019 & 2022 I have become friends with some over the years and regularly exchange messages with them. Hoping to get back out there again next year to see them again.

 

[Cumbrian 1]

I think there is a misconception that trophy hunting is somehow detrimental to the species it is not, my experience of hunting in Europe, Asia and Africa is that old males past their breeding prime are selected.

My trophy room is full and I took the decision last September not to bring trophies home anymore. In September I hunted Matetsi 1 in Zim, I took a tuskless ele, a great old bull elephant with good Ivory, a decent Cape buffalo, a beautiful kudu, an outstanding sable, a zebra and a waterbuck.

I took pictures and didn’t regret it, all that cost of shipping, taxidermy fees and the sheer hassle all taken away meaning more money for future hunts.

However I still think people should have the right to bring trophies home if they want to

 

[willie_gunn]

I volunteer at a local school. Many of the teachers were anti guns and hunting but, by speaking to them, distributing some venison and taking them to clay pigeon shooting, they are now quite “ pro “ !! I’ve explained to them about ethical trophy hunting and its beneficial effects, and they’ve taken that on board because, like most people, they are realistic. As a community, we can make a difference if we are vocal in a constructive way.

Well done, and exactly what is needed.

I also give away venison quite a bit, particularly at this time of the season when we are shooting as many roe does as possible, as I've found there is little better PR for deer stalking than to dish out the tasty bi-product of our efforts. Just yesterday I gave away three roe haunches, as well as some trimmings that the new owner was going to be converted into dog food. Some might view the latter as a waste, but the goodwill it generates means I am likely to get repaid several times over. It also gives the perfect opportunity to explain why deer numbers need to be controlled, and how venison is the ideal meat for those who value the provenance of what they eat.

That said, these are really more of an argument in defence of hunting itself, rather than in defence of trophy hunting per se.

Hence I am interested in your phrase "ethical trophy hunting", and how you define it. Where, for example, would you draw the line beyond which it then becomes "unethical trophy hunting"?

 

[Sol]

Is it currently that Impossible to even ship the horns back home? I imagine shipping Taxidermy is absolutely crazy expensive, however I wouldn't of assumed the horns be anywhere near that price.

 

[Jon P]

Is it currently that Impossible to even ship the horns back home? I imagine shipping Taxidermy is absolutely crazy expensive, however I wouldn't of assumed the horns be anywhere near that price.

There would still be a vet inspection and certificate fees, handling fees, carriage fees, taxidermy fees import tax .soon adds up , it cost me almost £500 to have 4 animal skins shipped to me that were not ready when the other taxidermy was. Box was approx 18 w x 18 d x 10 inch high

 

[VSS]

It's high time we changed our terminology to reflect what's actually happening on the ground. As everyone is so quick to point out, "trophy hunting" as perceived by the general public (think privileged White Hunter decimating Africa's wildlife and habitats, all for the sake of killing something rare and dangerous to glory over, and with no care for the future of those species) no longer exists. So we shouldn't call it that.
The term "hunting tourism" doesn't cut it either.
We should call it what it is:
Sustainable Use Conservation.

 

[stevec]

It's high time we changed our terminology to reflect what's actually happening on the ground. As everyone is so quick to point out, "trophy hunting" as perceived by the general public (think privileged White Hunter decimating Africa's wildlife and habitats, all for the sake of killing something rare and dangerous to glory over, and with no care for the future of those species) no longer exists. So we shouldn't call it that.
The term "hunting tourism" doesn't cut it either.
We should call it what it is:
Sustainable Use Conservation.

I have heard the phrase 'sport hunting' used

 

[VSS]

I have heard the phrase 'sport hunting' used

No need to include words like "sport" or "hunting" at all. They're just the "use" that makes the conservation "sustainable".
Far more sustainable, in fact, than wildlife tourism (bird watching tours, etc).
It would take a couple of hundred bird watching tourists to generate the same revenue as one wealthy American paying to shoot a clapped-out old lion that's no longer fit for breeding. And all those tourists would need water, and sanitation, and they'd generate waste that needed to be removed, and dangerous wildlife would need to be excluded from the areas that were set aside for their accommodation (which in itself would involve destruction of habitat). And bird watchers generally don't want to go to places where there's a very real risk of being shot by a poacher or being eaten by a lion, so the regions that could benefit from wildlife tourism are limited anyway. One hunter, on the other hand, travelling light, accompanied by a small team (guide, trackers etc) and staying in low-impact tented camps leaves a very small ecological footprint, even after taking into account the animals he culls.

 

[willie_gunn]

No need to include words like "sport" or "hunting" at all. They're just the "use" that makes the conservation "sustainable".
Far more sustainable, in fact, than wildlife tourism (bird watching tours, etc).
It would take a couple of hundred bird watching tourists to generate the same revenue as one wealthy American paying to shoot a clapped-out old lion that's no longer fit for breeding. And all those tourists would need water, and sanitation, and they'd generate waste that needed to be removed, and dangerous wildlife would need to be excluded from the areas that were set aside for their accommodation (which in itself would involve destruction of habitat). And bird watchers generally don't want to go to places where there's a very real risk of being shot by a poacher or being eaten by a lion, so the regions that could benefit from wildlife tourism are limited anyway. One hunter, on the other hand, travelling light, accompanied by a small team (guide, trackers etc) and staying in low-impact tented camps leaves a very small ecological footprint, even after taking into account the animals he culls.

I’m afraid a term like “sustainable use conservation” will smack of greenwashing, certainly amongst the antis.

Just call it wildlife management, or even sustainable wildlife management if you prefer, as that way it does exactly what it says on the tin. Then it is possible to make all the arguments necessary about managing a healthy ecosystem - taking out the old and weak animals, adjusting the number of mature males to the available territory, reducing the population of breeding females, keeping a sustainable predator/prey ratio, avoiding animal/human conflict, minimising crop damage, reducing susceptibility to disease or starvation, etc.

 

[moray loon]

Well done, and exactly what is needed.

I also give away venison quite a bit, particularly at this time of the season when we are shooting as many roe does as possible, as I've found there is little better PR for deer stalking than to dish out the tasty bi-product of our efforts. Just yesterday I gave away three roe haunches, as well as some trimmings that the new owner was going to be converted into dog food. Some might view the latter as a waste, but the goodwill it generates means I am likely to get repaid several times over. It also gives the perfect opportunity to explain why deer numbers need to be controlled, and how venison is the ideal meat for those who value the provenance of what they eat.

That said, these are really more of an argument in defence of hunting itself, rather than in defence of trophy hunting per se.

Hence I am interested in your phrase "ethical trophy hunting", and how you define it. Where, for example, would you draw the line beyond which it then becomes "unethical trophy hunting"?

To me, unethical means the shooting of animals in small fenced areas. I have hunted in RSA several times, on large open farms or very large fenced game farms. I never felt that what I was doing was unsportsmanlike, but I realise that hunting behind any fence raises a whole new argument.

 

[Namman]

To me, unethical means the shooting of animals in small fenced areas. I have hunted in RSA several times, on large open farms or very large fenced game farms. I never felt that what I was doing was unsportsmanlike, but I realise that hunting behind any fence raises a whole new argument.

Any area in Africa, Europe , the U.S will have a fenced boundary somwhere.
What is important and relevant is the size of it.

 

[Namman]

No need to include words like "sport" or "hunting" at all. They're just the "use" that makes the conservation "sustainable".
Far more sustainable, in fact, than wildlife tourism (bird watching tours, etc).
It would take a couple of hundred bird watching tourists to generate the same revenue as one wealthy American paying to shoot a clapped-out old lion that's no longer fit for breeding. And all those tourists would need water, and sanitation, and they'd generate waste that needed to be removed, and dangerous wildlife would need to be excluded from the areas that were set aside for their accommodation (which in itself would involve destruction of habitat). And bird watchers generally don't want to go to places where there's a very real risk of being shot by a poacher or being eaten by a lion, so the regions that could benefit from wildlife tourism are limited anyway. One hunter, on the other hand, travelling light, accompanied by a small team (guide, trackers etc) and staying in low-impact tented camps leaves a very small ecological footprint, even after taking into account the animals he culls.

I love the expressiomn "clapped out old lion"
Spot on !!!

 

[VSS]

I’m afraid a term like “sustainable use conservation” will smack of greenwashing, certainly amongst the antis.

Just call it wildlife management, or even sustainable wildlife management if you prefer, as that way it does exactly what it says on the tin. Then it is possible to make all the arguments necessary about managing a healthy ecosystem - taking out the old and weak animals, adjusting the number of mature males to the available territory, reducing the population of breeding females, keeping a sustainable predator/prey ratio, avoiding animal/human conflict, minimising crop damage, reducing susceptibility to disease or starvation, etc.

"Wildlife management" is an apt description of the way we do things here in the UK, but for the African situation (or at least, my (albeit limited) understanding of the African situation) I feel that the term "sustainable use conservation" is more appropriate. I don't see why that should be considered "green washing" if it accurately reflects what's actually happening on the ground?

 

[VSS]

Any area in Africa, Europe , the U.S will have a fenced boundary somwhere.
What is important and relevant is the size of it.

A lot of those fenced areas will be considerably larger than Scottish islands where people go to stalk "wild" red deer.

 

[ljs]

ELGIN GATES
The true trophy hunter is a self-disciplined perfectionist seeking a single animal, the ancient patriarch well past his prime that is often an outcast from his own kind… If successful, he will enshrine the trophy in a place of honor. This is a more noble and fitting end than dying on some lost and lonely ledge where the scavengers will pick his bones, and his magnificent horns will weather away and be lost forever.

 

[Fair Hill]

ELGIN GATES
The true trophy hunter is a self-disciplined perfectionist seeking a single animal, the ancient patriarch well past his prime that is often an outcast from his own kind… If successful, he will enshrine the trophy in a place of honor. This is a more noble and fitting end than dying on some lost and lonely ledge where the scavengers will pick his bones, and his magnificent horns will weather away and be lost forever.

When Michael Collins was born in 1890 his Dad was 75 years old and the average life expectancy in Ireland was 42.5 years.


The world doesn't need trophy hunters.