Trophy Hunting

[Tim.243]

OK
I don’t think I have responded to you before
Watch this. ALL THE WAY THROUGH please tell me when you have. All of it
Now tell me there isn’t passion. Dedication and a sheer brutal will to keep the wild places wild. I hunt there. I fund there. I am nothing compared to people like Derek. Such people just may keep something our kids and their kids may look on with wonder anew. I do hope so They depend on us
S

Frame.io

f.io

Did any of the group from your last trip have a trophy in the system to be shipped back?
If not was it cost?

 

[bogtrotter]

Waste your time if you wish, personally I’ve got more constructive things to do!

Like finishing my hind Cull

How much longer will you be able to do that?
We can't nor should we give up without a fight
This has bigger implications than importing a few trophies from Africa .
Hunting in Africa is what supports the management and care of these animals without hunting these animals will be in serious peril.
Yes some will hunt African game regardless
and you have photographic safari's but without those wanting to hunt trophy animals I doubt the business can survive.
What about those of us in this country who
Supply stalking the majority of our clients are from abroad for us it may be.managing deer but the client still wants to take their trophy
home when they can no longer do that many will stop coming,,I'm sure the same applies to many who hunt in Africa
Make no mistake this is not just about importing trophies from abroad the ultimate aim is not only import but also export in fact a ban on trophies full stop.
Trophies should and in most cases are part of a management plan.

 

[Basil H]

According to Mail Online this morning, Northern Ireland will be exempt from the legislation as it is in the Single Market.

 

[Island]

How much longer will you be able to do that?
We can't nor should we give up without a fight
This has bigger implications than importing a few trophies from Africa .
Hunting in Africa is what supports the management and care of these animals without hunting these animals will be in serious peril.
Yes some will hunt African game regardless
and you have photographic safari's but without those wanting to hunt trophy animals I doubt the business can survive.
What about those of us in this country who
Supply stalking the majority of our clients are from abroad for us it may be.managing deer but the client still wants to take their trophy
home when they can no longer do that many will stop coming,,I'm sure the same applies to many who hunt in Africa
Make no mistake this is not just about importing trophies from abroad the ultimate aim is not only import but also export in fact a ban on trophies full stop.
Trophies should and in most cases are part of a management plan.

As a side note...have you considered how this legislation will impact your invite to Germany to stalk an elephant @bogtrotter .......?

 

[bogtrotter]

As a side note...have you considered how this legislation will impact your invite to Germany to stalk an elephant @bogtrotter .......?

I might have a slight problem with it will have to work out how to smuggle the ivory in to the the Peoples Rebublic of Scotland but should manage bribes seem to work quite well.

 

[willie_gunn]

Make no mistake this is not just about importing trophies from abroad the ultimate aim is not only import but also export in fact a ban on trophies full stop.
Trophies should and in most cases are part of a management plan.

The concept of an animal being a "trophy" has no meaning outside of a measuring system devised by humans so that they can grade animals according to a range of criteria, some of which are subjective. These schemes only exist to allow humans to rank examples of a species and/or charge fees accrordingly. Trophies are an artificial construct.

A management plan that focuses on trophies is designed with one purpose in mind, to maximise revenue. A management plan to control the deer population should only be concerned with the proportion of the annual cull that are juvenile, middle-aged and old.

 

[bogtrotter]

The concept of an animal being a "trophy" has no meaning outside of a measuring system devised by humans so that they can grade animals according to a range of criteria, some of which are subjective. These schemes only exist to allow humans to rank examples of a species and/or charge fees accrordingly. Trophies are an artificial construct.

A management plan that focuses on trophies is designed with one purpose in mind, to maximise revenue. A management plan to control the deer population should only be concerned with the proportion of the annual cull that are juvenile, middle-aged and old.

Totally agree but if the hunter wants that old
animals.head prepped what's the problem.

All the years I have been a stalker all my clients almost without exception have wanted their heads prepped regardless of quality If they could not have that done I doubt very much If they would continue to come to the UK.

 

[willie_gunn]

Totally agree but if the hunter wants that old
animals.head prepped what's the problem.

All the years I have been a stalker all my clients almost without exception have wanted their heads prepped regardless of quality If they could not have that done I doubt very much If they would continue to come to the UK.

I always brought the antlers back from the animals I shot in Scotland - the first dozen or so years as skull mounts, after that I just had the antlers cut off. In reality there are only so many trophies you can have before you have to start to find other things to do with them. These days I'd rather put the antlers to good use than simply have them hanging around gathering dust.

Even then there is a limit to how many priests, walking sticks, knife handles, etc. you can make.

Keeping a trophy just because you happened to shoot something is really quite an illogical thing to do. What, after all, is the purpose of a trophy? It doesn't signify any particular individual hunting prowess, rather it is evidence of a fortunate set of circumstances - although not for the animal itself!

Surely the pleasure is in the hunt? If the focus is on the trophy then why not just buy a set of big antlers from a shop and be done with it?

 

[bogtrotter]

I have always brought

Sorry don't understand your reply.

 

[willie_gunn]

Sorry don't understand your reply.

My thumping of the keys resulted in the post being posted before it should have been! Full reply now above.

 

[sh1kar]

Did any of the group from your last trip have a trophy in the system to be shipped back?
If not was it cost?

We all went with no intention to bring anything back. One guy wobbled on a particularly good kudu but cost to get it here made his mind up

 

[Tim.243]

We all went with no intention to bring anything back. One guy wobbled on a particularly good kudu but cost to get it here made his mind up

Ok, just with all the posts of what is right and wrong then it shows in this case that cost was the factor.

 

[Jon P]

Ok, just with all the posts of what is right and wrong then it shows in this case that cost was the factor.

The cost is the limiting factors in most things unless your are fortunate enough that money is no object.

 

[Tim.243]

The cost is the limiting factors in most things unless your are fortunate enough that money is no object.

Quite, then the talk about distributing the large fees charged (cost) in this case did not filter through the system.
That is fine as people can spend their money how they wish, however with people on here posting who will never go or if they do not choose to "spend the extra money" might well be on the increase.
Who is going hunting to Africa and beyond and taking (or not) up the chance to bring something back before the door is shut..?

 

[long_range_rob]

Ironically, given your last sentence, the only justification for a ban is if society has judged trophy hunting (whatever that comprises) to be immoral.

There is no justification for a ban based on a belief this will save endangered species and their habitat.

K

I would counter with what’s the morality of raising and slaughtering billions of chickens annually. We are a species that predates on other species. Morality only comes in if you don’t believe humans should kill any other species. Frankly the vegetarian/vegan is massively over represented amongst the political elite.

 

[kenbro]

Bit from D Mail.
Ken.

 

[Jon P]

Quite, then the talk about distributing the large fees charged (cost) in this case did not filter through the system.
That is fine as people can spend their money how they wish, however with people on here posting who will never go or if they do not choose to "spend the extra money" might well be on the increase.
Who is going hunting to Africa and beyond and taking (or not) up the chance to bring something back before the door is shut..?

I have a consignment currently sat in joberg waiting to take off from a trip in 2022 , I have not worked out the full costs yet, my my 10 day trip in 2019 cost me £11k in total .

In relation to seeing the money helping people, In 2019 I was sat in a pick up with the tracker as the PH was getting us supplies from the shop, there was an equivalent to a B&M bargin shop near by, the tracker was saying for the girls to get a job in there they have to have sex with the manager or no job, the tracker had a 6 year old daughter, he did not want that for her, he was saving his money to send her to a German run school to get educated to avoid this happening to his daughter, on my 2022 trip the tracker is now a qualified PH and his daughter is enjoying her education from the money he earns.

I get regular whatapp messages and photos from him, so I know hunting money works.

The 5 people I went with in 2022 collectively prob spend £90k in 15 days,

 

[stevec]

I isn't

I have a consignment currently sat in joberg waiting to take off from a trip in 2022 , I have not worked out the full costs yet, my my 10 day trip in 2019 cost me £11k in total .

In relation to seeing the money helping people, In 2019 I was sat in a pick up with the tracker as the PH was getting us supplies from the shop, there was an equivalent to a B&M bargin shop near by, the tracker was saying for the girls to get a job in there they have to have sex with the manager or no job, the tracker had a 6 year old daughter, he did not want that for her, he was saving his money to send her to a German run school to get educated to avoid this happening to his daughter, on my 2022 trip the tracker is now a qualified PH and his daughter is enjoying her education from the money he earns.

I get regular whatapp messages and photos from him, so I know hunting money works.

The 5 people I went with in 2022 collectively prob spend £90k in 15 days,

It isn't just the employment. By law in many African countries, a significant proportion of the fee paid to shoot an exportable trophy animal, rather than a management animal is paid directly to the local community or is set aside for community development projects.

 

[wildfowler.250]

Keeping a trophy just because you happened to shoot something is really quite an illogical thing to do. What, after all, is the purpose of a trophy? It doesn't signify any particular individual hunting prowess, rather it is evidence of a fortunate set of circumstances - although not for the animal itself!

Surely the pleasure is in the hunt? If the focus is on the trophy then why not just buy a set of big antlers from a shop and be done with it?

I would say that a “trophy” , (always a daft term but that’s not directed at anyone on here) if a far more tangible memory of a hunt/trip than just a photograph.



Is there any particular date for when this will all come into effect? Imminent this year? 2-3 years down the line?

Is it likely to affect all imports ,(eg NZ and America?) or purely African?


It seems like everything has jumped the gun. Surely an import permit per species would have made more sense. Easy for antelope and harder to justify for say, lions etc? In no way am I condoning this, just thinking around it.

 

[NoIDeer]

Bad law seems to be the done thing nowadays, it's far easier to appease the moaners using a sticking plaster instead of upholding the current legislation.