Trump Wins - One American's Perspective

[Essexsussex]

I would agree with that.

Rich, luvvy pop stars telling struggling workers how to vote is still basically the "establishment" and it was that which the people overwhelmingly rejected.

There was actually a very good YT video about what Clinton did wrong, definitely worth a watch if people want to understand why Trump won the day.



We have a result that we cant change, so from this point what we do with that is up to us. Rather like Brexit I am getting frustrated with the commentators who are saying Trump will be the worst POTUS ever, and he's going to fail dismally... The same commentators who are saying Brexit will be a disaster and bankrupt us all, whilst missing the HUGE irony that they are trying to tell us what will be the result of this thing they said would never happen in the first place.

I think surely its in all of our collective interests to hope that Trump actually turns out to be a decent POTUS and is successful, and in the interests of the people who will be working with him to ensure this is the case?

that youtube is very good viewing. think he's had quite a lot of caffeine (or stronger)!

 

[Muir]

Let's be clear, the Trump foundation does nothing for charity, it is a scam for avoiding tax, paying off politicians, and giant pictures of Mr Trump that were loaned back to his golf course. A million dollars was a very very serious amount of money then. the Clinton foundation does huge good in the world. Avoiding the glaring contradiction in ignoring the legally questionable practices of the Trump foundation while vilifying the actually charitable Clinton foundation, is willful hypocracy.

Both Foundations were legally run under US law. Both used them for their own good, BUT, Clinton used it while Secretary of State. It was odd how countries would get considerations or face-to-face meetings only after they hired Bill to give a 20 minute speech for a several hundred thousand dollar "donation" to the Clinton Foundation.

Like i said, I am not a fan of Trump, but I have been studying Hillary for decades. She is no one the American people needed for President.~Muir

 

[timbrayford]

Those words are a perfect illustration of the type of person who holds ordinary, decent, working people in utter contempt.

I couldn't agree more, both the Trump & Brexit votes demonstrate how fed up the ordinary man and woman are with the smug arrogant attitude of the urban middle class elite who seem to think that not only do they know best but also that they are the only ones entitled to an opinion.

On more than one occasion I have heard them express the view that the only reason that the majority voted for Brexit was that we didn't understand the issues. I wouldn't be surprised if Hillary's chums don't excuse her failure in a similar manner.

 

[Pine Marten]

You know, if we're going to move on, on both sides of the Atlantic, we're going to have to get over this "Ordinary hardworking decent folk" vs. "arrogant metropolitan elite" narrative. Because at 51.9%/48.1% of the UK electorate and 47.4%/52.6% of the US one, no-one can just dismiss the other side. It's just sterile, divisive, and counter-productive.

 

[african jack]

How can we move on when the losers can not accept they lost?

You know, if we're going to move on, on both sides of the Atlantic, we're going to have to get over this "Ordinary hardworking decent folk" vs. "arrogant metropolitan elite" narrative. Because at 51.9%/48.1% of the UK electorate and 47.4%/52.6% of the US one, no-one can just dismiss the other side. It's just sterile, divisive, and counter-productive.

 

[Pine Marten]

Wow can we move on when the losers can not accept they lost?

Oh it's fine, OK, we lost. But half the electorates haven't just vanished. And we're not going to solve anything durably if we just take it on turns to trample over the other half. So to move on and start fixing things, I suggest it would be helpful to not use this kind of reductionist language. Calling Trump voters a "basket of deplorables" probably wasn't a very wise choice of words. That said, we're unlikely to solve this on the SD.

 

[sauer]

It's a two way street Pine. Martin!

When are the losers going to accept the lawful decisions & stop telling people who voted opposite them oh you didn't understand the issues
Votes been cast but not much being done bout it ....
Think the Brexiteers be quite happy to work along with the no voters & get things sorted but all we kept hearing is
" it's wrong we do t want this"

Yup I agree votes cast
Look forward not back
Crack on get things going

Paul

 

[Pine Marten]

It's a two way street Pine Martin!

Yes it is. Agreed. It's going to take time, be hard, and involve everyone admitting to and stepping up to some unpleasant concerns and realities. And defining some boundaries.

 

[african jack]

Exactly I think if the vote had gone the other way they would have taken it on the chin and not kept crying about it

It's a two way street Pine. Martin!

When are the losers going to accept the lawful decisions & stop telling people who voted opposite them oh you didn't understand the issues
Votes been cast but not much being done bout it ....
Think the Brexiteers be quite happy to work along with the no voters & get things sorted but all we kept hearing is
" it's wrong we do t want this"

Yup I agree votes cast
Look forward not back
Crack on get things going

Paul

 

[bowji john]

You know, if we're going to move on, on both sides of the Atlantic, we're going to have to get over this "Ordinary hardworking decent folk" vs. "arrogant metropolitan elite" narrative. Because at 51.9%/48.1% of the UK electorate and 47.4%/52.6% of the US one, no-one can just dismiss the other side. It's just sterile, divisive, and counter-productive.

I'm not sure that i agree -

I'm not sure that we are going to continue along the lines of the past - that we agree the destination - even if we don't all agree the route

That we all agree on a common belief of our collective political direction

We are a resource poor planet over populated by a greedy destructive species that exhibits the collective characteristics of an ant colony, a locust swarm and an oil spill

Resources are running out and populations are on the move from resource poor locations to others not yet affected by the decline

Globalisation has forced disparate cultures together for the benefit of the profits of parasitic business

Protest has been squashed through a system of politically correct social and mental control

Trump ( a flawed personality) is not a solution but a symptom of the backlash from those facing elimination (as they are no longer economically relevant to the multinationals)

This change is only starting with Trump - it is not ending with him

 

[terrier]

bowji john,
Wonderfully erudite, and right in the crosshairs....

 

[timbrayford]

You know, if we're going to move on, on both sides of the Atlantic, we're going to have to get over this "Ordinary hardworking decent folk" vs. "arrogant metropolitan elite" narrative. Because at 51.9%/48.1% of the UK electorate and 47.4%/52.6% of the US one, no-one can just dismiss the other side. It's just sterile, divisive, and counter-productive.

I'm afraid that the chattering classes are just going to have to grin and bear this one, no matter what the editors of the "Guardian" and "Independent" might think.

Its not a case of dismissing the "other side" as you put it so much as the "other side" breaking with tradition and accepting that no matter how loud or eloquently they shout in those horrid braying tones that they learnt during their boarding school elocution lessons the democratic vote went against them.

To put it in plain working man's language it is time for them to put up and shut up.

 

[Essexsussex]

I'm afraid that the chattering classes are just going to have to grin and bear this one, no matter what the editors of the "Guardian" and "Independent" might think.

Its not a case of dismissing the "other side" as you put it so much as the "other side" breaking with tradition and accepting that no matter how loud or eloquently they shout in those horrid braying tones that they learnt during their boarding school elocution lessons the democratic vote went against them.

To put it in plain working man's language it is time for them to put up and shut up.

I might not be right, but...my sense is that the "other side" isn't the boarding schooled educated lot particularly, but as much the metropolitan generations that for the large part benefitted from a more inclusive education system (sometimes much better in cities) and have jobs based on new industries that are more global, rather than those who rely upon more traditional manufacturing or rural industries.

I make no judgement on either side but when I think of friends who voted Brexit and would have voted Trump, those would be the boarding school educated ones, and the ones who were against Brexit are likely to be my metropolitan friends (read "townies"), younger and mostly comprehensive educated with a nice way of life funded by those new industries, and often who don't understand the rural way of life and look sideways when they see a photo of a dead deer.

I also don't think that many of the Guardian or Independent readers will be boarding school educated, and if they are their children won't be (I stand to be corrected on that as I am not a Guardian or Independent reader)!

 

[willie_gunn]

First it was age, now it's class.

Only on Tuesday we had another fine example of how opinion polls get it wrong, yet we will still insist on suggesting we know how individuals voted.

The vote on the 23rd wasn't "Rich Vs Poor", "Working Class vs Toff". "Publicly Educated vs Privately Educated" or "Old vs Young" - it was "in the EU" or "out of the EU".

Every individual voted for their own reasons. The sooner we realise that and stop trying to convince ourselves it was something else, the sooner we can move on.

 

[african jack]

I will tell you where I stand Willie I did not care all though I don't like the EU what got up my nose is certain people trying to go against the vote and keep banging on about it thinking they are superior

 

[timbrayford]

I will tell you where I stand Willie I did not care all though I don't like the EU what got up my nose is certain people trying to go against the vote and keep banging on about it thinking they are superior

 

[Hereford]

Brexiters - you know, it's ok to admit you were openly and blatantly lied to and then led by the nose to vote to be worse off for an indeterminate length of time - we won't judge you

 

[african jack]

No body lie to me I am a grown up and can see through Bullsh-it on both sides

Brexiters - you know, it's ok to admit you were openly and blatantly lied to and then led by the nose to vote to be worse off for an indeterminate length of time - we won't judge you

 

[timbrayford]

Ok, it doesn't mention boarding schools but a lot of the AB social classes will have benefitted from a public school education which is ordinarily well out of the reach of the C2-D,E groups
https://www.theguardian.com/advertising/guardian-circulation-readership-statistics

 

[Pine Marten]

Over all, about 7% of the population attended a public school. So there is no way that's enough people to carry any popular vote. However, a disproportionate number of people in positions of power and influence were part of that 7%. That is very definitely what you could call an elite. But it wouldn't be enough people to make up the Guardian's readership.