Using a double rifle for stalking

[Pine Marten]

Hello everyone.

On Thursday morning, I saw that I had an email entitled "Important news about your Lotto ticket". Now it turned out that I had just won a lucky dip, but that was enough to set the Fantasy League Hunting brain circuits in motion again. Now as I've mentioned before, my Fantasy League Hunt is for moose in the Yukon, on horseback. That requires a bigger gun. This is fine, it's imaginary, I can choose anything I like. Now that said, even with imaginary funds I can't bring myself to be that profligate, so I wouldn't buy a rifle for a single trip that then would serve no further purpose. Also for me, a rifle isn't just a tool for the job, it adds to the experience, hence my somewhat esoteric choices until now.

Now I don't really want to discuss calibres. Let's say I just like the 9.3s and am pretty satisfied that these will knock over a moose and do an angry bear some damage should that happen, because in the Yukon, there's the danger that you're not the only hunter around or indeed the scariest animal on the tundra. A rifle in 9.3x62 or 9.3x74R would have the advantage of being perfectly adapted to Europe too, so not a single use item. Now there are no end of good rifles in that chambering, but I already have a very nice bolt-action rifle and somehow, I just can't build up any sort of excitement for another one. My brain likes the Merkel Helix for all sorts of reasons, it ticks all the boxes except that, well, there's no spark.

But, well, the Merkel 141 double rifle with adjustable barrels rather that hard-soldered ones, well, that's something else... Now I know that typically these are used at shortish ranges for driven hunting, but I can't think of any reason why they couldn't also be used like a single shot stalking rifle. I mean if you had an adequate scope on it such as a 1.5-10x42, which could quite happily be a stalking scope or a moving shot one, and you regulated/zeroed it at 100m, how is that any different to a single shot rifle? Sure, maybe you wouldn't have half-inch groups, but you don't need to, you need to hit something the size of a dinner plate. You may receive some funny looks too, but I'm used to that...

So can anyone think of a real, solid reason why such a rifle wouldn't be suited to this use should the next email from the Lotto be a but more exciting? Or even better, tell me this is exactly how you use yours and it's a great idea.

Thanks!

 

[AN DU RU FOX]

No 1 spend half your imaginary money on a good pistol.in case an imaginary bear pops up.

 

[jthyttin]

Cannot see Merkel 141 as an ideal choice to mount a riflescope with objective bell.

 

[Greener Jim]

There is no reason a scope can't go on there. This is a 141 and there are many others with scopes if you give it a google. Would be a great rifle for moose and other large game.
View attachment 80075

As for using it in the U.K., zero problems. Plenty of weight options in 9.3mm and a good selection of different constructions so you could easily find loads which worked for different game. I am weeks away from a 9.3x57 in my hands and I will use it for everything.
With the adjustable regulation on the merkel you aren't stuck with one load either so really very versatile.

 

[jthyttin]

Jim, there's a full inch of difference in irons/optics LOS, or at least 20+ mm (judging by scope measurements).

I for one wouldn't like to hover my head w/o support to get sight picture.

 

[Hornet 6]

I for one wouldn't like to hover my head w/o support to get sight picture.

You don't need to, it's a wooden stock, just a like a proper shotgun, and just like a shotgun it should be fitted to you.

Neil.

 

[tackb]

a friend used a 7x64r o/u double rifle on the hill once for hinds , it was a disaster !

after his first shot which was usually bang on depending how long he waited the second would move considerably , up to 12-18'' randomly so quite unpredictable ! it was something to do with heat , not a worry on a driven hunt where you would fire one shot then another nearly straight away or reload the top barrel and shoot that again , anyway it was a disaster and proved that there is much better kit for that application.

 

[Pine Marten]

I guess the annoying thing is that the only way to really find out is to try it. But there isn't really a way of doing that... I also suspect it very much changes from one double rifle to the next, depending on regulation, loads, whether the barrels are soldered or free as in the Chapuis X4. I take your point about differential heating in the barrels though.

 

[Heym SR20]

Well I will be able to give you a response fairly shortly. I have a shiny new Einstecklauf sitting at my friendly RFD that I need to collect and then off to a friendly gunsmith to have it fitted to my combination gun - cost and beuracracy of sending the combination gun to Germany and back were prohibitive - its the exporting bit thats the costly bit.

The existing 7x65R barrel shoots well and is zeroed at 100, and have taken plenty of deer at longer distances than that. If I do my bit it shoots a 1' group. My home laod 139gn and the RWS 173 gn both shoot to the same Zero

The Einstecklauf is also in 7x65R and has adjustable regulation so my plan is to have it shooting parallel to the bottom barrel, so shooting just under 1" high at 100. It will be interesting to see whether or not the fitting of the Einstecklauf changes the existing zero. It is not heavy, but it will have an effect on the recoil, hence point of impact.

When I set it up I will probably start much closer. I have got it, so that I have a second barrel for pigs and I will probably regulate it for the heavier load.

In terms of PM's original question, I already use a double as a single shot. Most double rifles shoot their individual barrels very accurately - provided you let cool between shots - and no reason why you should n't have perfect zero on one barrel - I am already doing so - chances are the 2nd barrel is close enough not to matter in practice, and if it does you will have time to reload.

With an over and under, the barrels tend to shoot one above the other, in a side by side, on is off to one side. Many old doubles, with certain loads will cross and that may be more problematic. On a SxS sights are generally set to the mid point between the two barrels, and any half decent double will put all its shot inside a clay pigeon sized target at 100 yds. More than accurate enough for any game you are shooting with a rifle, save for small foxes or little muntjac.

There is a variation of the Double called a Bergstutzen - a double with a heavy calibre and a light calibre. They tend to be very accurate and more than adequate for shooting chamois etc.

 

[Heym SR20]

a friend used a 7x64r o/u double rifle on the hill once for hinds , it was a disaster !

after his first shot which was usually bang on depending how long he waited the second would move considerably , up to 12-18'' randomly so quite unpredictable ! it was something to do with heat , not a worry on a driven hunt where you would fire one shot then another nearly straight away or reload the top barrel and shoot that again , anyway it was a disaster and proved that there is much better kit for that application.

Something that will always happen when barrels are soldered together. Hind stalking when needing to shoot lots of beasts is the job for a magazine rifle. Most stalking you need one shot.

 

[Pine Marten]

Hind stalking when needing to shoot lots of beasts is the job for a magazine rifle. Most stalking you need one shot.

Yes, you have to bear in mind the limitations of your equipment. Should my numbers come up, this would be a complementary rifle and not a main one. As I said, for UK use and indeed for just about anything in Europe, I already have what I need. My bolt action rifle is perfectly adequate for driven shooting if required, as a secondary purpose. This would be more the opposite: a primarily driven shooting rifle, that is also usable for stalking on occasion, specifically bigger game given that the 9.3 is a significant step up in power from my 7mms.

 

[Southern]

Jim, there's a full inch of difference in irons/optics LOS, or at least 20+ mm (judging by scope measurements).

I for one wouldn't like to hover my head w/o support to get sight picture.

It is not the problem you might suspect. You just move your face up and get a cheek weld further down on the jaw bone. I have several vintage Mauser, Mannlicher Schoenauer, and 1903 Springfield sporting rifles which line up perfectly to the iron sights for myself, and also work with high scopes in German claw mounts.

If you know you are going to be shooting with the scope for the day, just slip on a leather comb riser, like the Tourbon, which also has loops for extra cartridges.

 

[deeangeo]

No 1 spend half your imaginary money on a good pistol.in case an imaginary bear pops up.

A .44 S&W was what we were hunting bear with in thick undergrowth in high regions of Pennsylvania several years ago. One of our party of three carried a 45/70 carbine, while myself & another carried revolvers.
You just never know how fast the action can happen in forrested areas.

However, a short barrelled double does sound good to me.

 

[lochty]

We used to have a guest who used and over and under double rifle at stags. Now it might have been him, but I think he would have had more success using it as a club, than a rifle......

 

[Heym SR20]

Stag1933 used a double Merkel 7x65r for many years shooting Red deer in the lakes.

 

[mchughcb]

So can anyone think of a real, solid reason why such a rifle wouldn't be suited to this use should the next email from the Lotto be a but more exciting? Or even better, tell me this is exactly how you use yours and it's a great idea.
Thanks!

If you think back to where you hunt, how you hunt, what would be the average and longest distance you have connected with a deer. Its not much use having only open sights on these rifles if you are expecting to shoot deer at 200m+ unless you have exceptional eye sight and custom sights.

I don't like the drop in the stock for putting your eye in line with the scope while keeping your cheek on the stock and you will notice how difficult it is to get a small scope back far enough to get the right eye relief on a standard scope.

Blaser BBF97 has none of the associated stock, scope problems and is thermostabil.

Save your money and get a good double that can be used for hunting or better still get yourself a Blaser K95 single

 

[Jagare]

Jim, there's a full inch of difference in irons/optics LOS, or at least 20+ mm (judging by scope measurements).

I for one wouldn't like to hover my head w/o support to get sight picture.

As above. Much as i love Merkel double rifles many do have a terrible stock shape for shooting with a scope mounted. The rifle in Jims photo would have to have a adjustable comb fitted for me to use it. If they are factory regulated without a scope the may well need re-regulating to shoot with a scope on.

 

[Pine Marten]

As above. Much as i love Merkel double rifles many do have a terrible stock shape for shooting with a scope mounted. The rifle in Jims photo would have to have a adjustable comb fitted for me to use it. If they are factory regulated without a scope the may well need re-regulating to shoot with a scope on.

How is it any different from shooting with a drilling for example? Because I can do that.... And yes, I do use a comb raiser.

 

[Greener Jim]

^^^^ ding ding ding. If you want a rifle to point like a shotgun when using irons you're gonna have to sacrifice the scope side of things. Using a comb raiser, like PM does, easily gives you access to a scopes rifle and can easily be removed along with the scope to allow for a fast handling double with irons. The

 

[Jagare]

How is it any different from shooting with a drilling for example? Because I can do that.... And yes, I do use a comb raiser.

Your drilling was never regulated like a double rifle so mounting a scope makes no difference. My combi shoots great with a scope on but if i was going to use it on driven boar, deer it would need 15mm on the comb for it to fit properly.