Using thermal for stalking

[cookingfat]

Thermals are here to stay, they are a tool and you use it as you see fit. I must reiterate they are not an X Ray machine and may not find your dead or injured deer. Please please do not go storming in after an injured deer with your thermal. Wait a suitable time or you will push it on. Check the shot site and analyse your findings before proceeding. I've had to track plenty of deer that couldn't be found with thermal.

Wise words Paul, like you I have been called in to help after following up to soon after with a thermal and deer have just been pushed further away particularly leg and head shot ones, also been called to help when animals are just laying in a gully or out of eye line for the thermal,
I have been out to help stalkers who have missed placed a shot with a thermal scope now whether thats to do with it being a thermal scope I am not sure!
Like many have said Thermal spotters and scopes are here to stay and get many more deer shot and for most stalkers they are the norm, the only time I can see an advantage with using glass is if you are a professional guide and need to have a good look at a buck\stag head before a client takes a shot.

 

[foxdropper]

Needs more people to bypass the dealer and sell direct to outlets .
I havnt the finess with a blade to turn out packaged goods but I have a hunter ID and I sell skinned roe whenever possible to any outlet ,getting at least double dealer rates ,sometimes triple .
It’s very easy to turn up at a dealers place ,offload whatever and wait for the bacs transfer and it’s this reason the rates will never climb to reach what we know it should be ,for some the need to get rid overrides any monetary gain .
Anybody doing just so is not really helping the situation ,me included at times but there tis .
What I can do as a rational person is refrain from shooting to excess on any outing where I could quite easily do half a dozen a day .
Thermal is just another tool in the assessment of what’s out there and is in most instances the start of field craft as I know it .
I almost guarantee some of the lads decrying it will at some time turn to it if only to see what they are missing out on .

 

[TomT3]

To be fair I don’t know what the constant bickering is about on this forum- if you don’t want to stalk with it don’t! I personally haven’t got one although I have used a monocular for foxing on numerous occasions and it is an awesome bit of kit. I personally wouldn’t use one stalking as there is no need for me to, at the moment I stalk to do a service to one of my good farmer friends and to put meat on the table and soon I will be going on paid stalks . I haven’t got a cull number to hit and putting food in my family’s mouth doesn’t rely on it. I can completely understand if the blokes in the above situation are using them why wouldn’t they! I would imagine it can be quite stressful if you have a seemingly unrealistic cull target to hit and stress isn’t any good for anyone! Further to that the more involved I hopefully get with stalking there will inevitably be a time when I wish I had one-for me mainly for tracking deer that have run.

 

[Dexter]

Thank you oh wise one for your mighty input ! You are the “ voice of stalking “

All good and primarily sensible discussions amongst adults and then this!
Well done for lowering the standard of the forum again Jimbo. Pathetic!

 

[jimbo1984]

All good and primarily sensible discussions amongst adults and then this!
Well done for lowering the standard of the forum again Jimbo. Pathetic!

Really ? What I find pathetic is his blatant Dsc plug . If we’re all “ qualified “ stalking is safe ! Never heard as much crap in my life
Ps coming from you I find the accusation of lowering the standard is laughable take a look in the mirror old boy

 

[Freeforester]

One may consider here also the paying punter who has scrimped and saved to afford his/her big day out, and more often than not expects to make a shot for his hard-earned - should the professional guide do his utmost (in spite of say, poor weather on the chosen day) to get the Rifle his shot, but leave the thermal at home, or take it and use it to help him notice say that pheasant couched twixt hunter and quarry, that may well otherwise give the game away to the deer - does such a 'dodge' enhance the stalk for the guest, or detract somehow from it?

Or should the punter just 'suck it up' and put it down to bad luck/an 'unavoidable' fly in the ointment, and that their stalk did not ultimately bear fruit - should they be content in this scenario, to go home without having squeezed the trigger?
For sure, before thermal units came about, this scenario has happened many times before, and we all, professional and amateur alike, have been caught out in something akin to this scenario (the careless/unlucky "bump") - does this matter, or should the punter be prepared for such a mishap, avoidable or not? What is the pro guide's take - does he shrug his shoulders and 'commiserate' with the guest about their joint bad luck, whereafter counting on the money to soothe their own pains thus suffered, or should he use all he has at his disposal to ensure success, which in any case is by no means guaranteed either with or without the use of a thermal?

I'm genuinely interested in hearing views from those who disapprove of or otherwise prefer not to see their use, and if they could perhaps give their views and justification for their decision/view to the above, I would be grateful; for sure, if the guest Rifle is a true sportsman/woman, they will accept matters as they fall, but how should we consider their not unreasonable expectations for results on their day out? Perhaps the guide should ask the guest in advance as to their preference?

As a sometime guide, though not for paid 'day trips', it would be of interest to learn of the views in this respect from those who do cater for this type of scenario.

"To scan, or not to scan, that is the question"...

 

[Cyres]

Use mine all the time and is indispensable. Last night for instance driving up a small lane saw 3 munties in some scruby undergrowth not 10 yds from the road, we would have been oblivious of there presence without it. Shot a small vixen inside a 10 acre free range enclosure later on. V tall grass difficult enough to find with a thermal not a chance with a lamp and it would have vanished if we had tried to lamp it. Observe far more with a thermal but don't necessarily shoot more.

D

 

[User00003]

A voice of vast experience! The first time I experienced thermal a mate of mine said 'there's 15 fallow in the bushes about 30m in front of us'! I looked through my bins and couldn't see even one! But we then knew they were there and that's the advantage!
Deer stalking is very much a game of 'who sees who first', and that's where TI gives you the advantage.
However, all it shows you is a white glow! You still then need to stalk close enough, sex and age the beast, make sure there is nothing to obstruct and a safe backstop - basic stalking skills and safety? Yes, it gives you an advantage, but so does most modern equipment?
If you are that bothered then get out dressed in a loin cloth with a spear or bow! Actually don't as that would be illegal! Why is that I wonder?
MS

This forum is about deer stalking, even one if the founders has exclaimed his distaste for TI usage...maybe this is the wrong forum for you to be part of tbh, time to leave?

 

[sikamalc]

Wise words Paul, like you I have been called in to help after following up to soon after with a thermal and deer have just been pushed further away particularly leg and head shot ones, also been called to help when animals are just laying in a gully or out of eye line for the thermal,
I have been out to help stalkers who have missed placed a shot with a thermal scope now whether thats to do with it being a thermal scope I am not sure!
Like many have said Thermal spotters and scopes are here to stay and get many more deer shot and for most stalkers they are the norm, the only time I can see an advantage with using glass is if you are a professional guide and need to have a good look at a buck\stag head before a client takes a shot.

I have to say with no disrespect your final comment made me laugh That is the most ridiculous comment I have seen for a long while.

 

[mealiejimmy]

Thermal imagers exist, they are legal for spotting (and shooting in some places), and they are increasingly within the financial reach of shooters.
Whether their use is right or wrong is a choice each individual needs to make dependent on their individual circumstances and their outlook
However, to berate other members because their choice is not the same as yours is definitely wrong.

Cheers

Bruce

 

[cookingfat]

I have to say with no disrespect your final comment made me laugh That is the most ridiculous comment I have seen for a long while.

So your happy to look at a animal with a thermal rather the binoculars before your client takes a shot Malcolm?
Ah well each to there own!

 

[Chasey]

One may consider here also the paying punter who has scrimped and saved to afford his/her big day out, and more often than not expects to make a shot for his hard-earned - should the professional guide do his utmost (in spite of say, poor weather on the chosen day) to get the Rifle his shot, but leave the thermal at home, or take it and use it to help him notice say that pheasant couched twixt hunter and quarry, that may well otherwise give the game away to the deer - does such a 'dodge' enhance the stalk for the guest, or detract somehow from it?

Or should the punter just 'suck it up' and put it down to bad luck/an 'unavoidable' fly in the ointment, and that their stalk did not ultimately bear fruit - should they be content in this scenario, to go home without having squeezed the trigger?
For sure, before thermal units came about, this scenario has happened many times before, and we all, professional and amateur alike, have been caught out in something akin to this scenario (the careless/unlucky "bump") - does this matter, or should the punter be prepared for such a mishap, avoidable or not? What is the pro guide's take - does he shrug his shoulders and 'commiserate' with the guest about their joint bad luck, whereafter counting on the money to soothe their own pains thus suffered, or should he use all he has at his disposal to ensure success, which in any case is by no means guaranteed either with or without the use of a thermal?

I'm genuinely interested in hearing views from those who disapprove of or otherwise prefer not to see their use, and if they could perhaps give their views and justification for their decision/view to the above, I would be grateful; for sure, if the guest Rifle is a true sportsman/woman, they will accept matters as they fall, but how should we consider their not unreasonable expectations for results on their day out? Perhaps the guide should ask the guest in advance as to their preference?

As a sometime guide, though not for paid 'day trips', it would be of interest to learn of the views in this respect from those who do cater for this type of scenario.

"To scan, or not to scan, that is the question"...

That's a very good point.

I have guided a handful of times and felt enormous pressure to get an animal on the ground especially when the stalker has donated a lump pf cash to the charity.

Some people dont take the shot, or dont see anything shootable and yet seem to have a great day out and generally i thought that was because we'd seen deer, but just couldn't get on them or on the right ones.

However when we see pretty much nothing, its a bad day all round. So for finding deer, even unshootable ones, I was glad to have the thermal as I have no doubt it upped my spotting success considerably and generally allowed more ground to be covered in the day by speeding up the observation time.

I suppose the answer to your question is to offer a thermal spotting service and allow the purists to turn it down.

PS Thermal is a spotter even my top of the range one. ID & Sexing is through glass except foxing when its through my IR NV rig which I found a lot easier to ID with than a thermal scope

 

[JockStalk]

I do often wonder why the anti’s even bother.

Left to our own, we’ll happily turn on ourselves.

JS

 

[Freeforester]

So your happy to look at a animal with a thermal rather the binoculars before your client takes a shot Malcolm?
Ah well each to there own!

I'm not certain, but I think you may possibly have the 'wrong end of the stick' there?

 

[Ranger22]

This forum is about deer stalking, even one if the founders has exclaimed his distaste for TI usage...maybe this is the wrong forum for you to be part of tbh, time to leave?

If you dont like what’s being discussed, perhaps you should leave.

 

[Dexter]

I'm not certain, but I think you may possibly have the 'wrong end of the stick' there?

I'm confused too. I saw nothing wrong with the post.

 

[Dan Newcombe]

Amazing - 9 pages.

pretty sure that there is not going to be an agreement reached on this one!

 

[Ronin]

It’s obviously a subject that creates polarised opinion

Guess there is no right or wrong answer depending on ones own experiences

Have to say that everyone I have spoken to who have tried using Ti have become converts

You do not “need” it to be a successful deer stalker / operator / manager/ culler etc etc etc

It’s just another (helpful) tool

Bit like binoculars, knife, rifle, scope and ammunition

They all assist to achieve the common goal

Pity people cannot exchange their viewpoint without resorting to he who shouts loudest tactics or decrying another’s experiences

Use it or not , your choice, but I guess it’s here to stay

 

[sikamalc]

So your happy to look at a animal with a thermal rather the binoculars before your client takes a shot Malcolm?
Ah well each to there own!

No I do not own a thermal, nor do I have any intention of owning one. I use a good pair of Zeiss bino's. Anyone who relies on a thermal to spot deer all the time is not stalking in my book. Old school I know, I know I am! Thermals have their place, unfortunalty I think they also encourage more poaching as well.
I have seen and looked through thermals, but at the days end its not really stalking in my book, and besides they also are limited as sometimes it shows up hot spots on rocks, trees etc.

 

[rem284]

I depends on objectives. Over protection and save money for landowner or managers ues want you have to.

Sport is your objective then do it a sporting way if you want

Conflict, no need. I am happy to see the ones doing it for sport. The sporting boys need to feel the sameway about the ones with other objectives

Dont bad mouth each other. RESPECT as ali g says