Which 223.

I’m not sure I’m going to spend hours sitting shooting groups, it seems to work very well as is so prob just carry on using it for foxing 👍🏻

Wait, what?
No no no... is this even possible?

What are we going to discuss ad nauseam then?

Maybe tighten the action screws a bit more... then report back...


;)
 
Wait, what?
No no no... is this even possible?

What are we going to discuss ad nauseam then?

Maybe tighten the action screws a bit more... then report back...


;)

I’ve still not got round to sitting shooting groups with the rifle, but more foxes have fallen to it.

Just point and shoot, they aren’t that far away at night anyways.
 

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Now this interests me.
I have an open slot for a .223 with moderator right now and I was going to just build another T3.
But then I thought why not an AR chassis?
I’m trying to workout if it would be more hassle than it was worth if I took it out for the odd muntjac
I would not go to AR platform in straigth pull. It's cumbersome and noisy to (un)chamber and load. Lock time is awful and you need to spend £300 or more to get decent (drop-in) trigger and even then it doesn't compare favorably to T3 (slight polish and/or cheap spring swap). If you want longer rail, attachment points etc. just drop the Tikka in chassis of your choice.

Personally I mostly use ARs for vermin, but they're semiauto.
 
If it was me!……buying new at a budget…..the Bergara B14. Used…..Sako if money no object…..CZ otherwise…you may need to spend 30 minutes polishing the bolt to get it buttery smooth.
Best new buy??…..without doubt the CZ600…….retails at around £1300 from McAvoy guns…….look at some of the reviews on YouTube…….this gun is a game changer. Downside for me is they don’t do it in .243!! Might seriously have to consider selling my Sako S491 in .223 to get the CZ😀…not really….it shoots sub moa every time out.👍
 
I would not go to AR platform in straigth pull. It's cumbersome and noisy to (un)chamber and load. Lock time is awful and you need to spend £300 or more to get decent (drop-in) trigger and even then it doesn't compare favorably to T3 (slight polish and/or cheap spring swap). If you want longer rail, attachment points etc. just drop the Tikka in chassis of your choice.

Personally I mostly use ARs for vermin, but they're semiauto.
Have you looked at the Schmeisser SP15 range?
I have the 14.5" barrell version and its not anything like your description.
I went from a full custom MDT Remington 700 to my Schmeisser and would never go back. The SP15 is by far the best foxing rifle I have ever seen or used.
 

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Haven't even handled SP15 but have shot other similar sidecharger. The problem with (un)chambering is that you're fighting against the buffer spring and also the rotating bolt creates extra "resistance" in the process (compared to regular turnbolt). So doing it all quietly is kind of PITA (with non-sidecharger it requires even more dexterity since you have to manipulate charging handle and forward assist at the same time to gradually move the BCG forward). Of course this is not an issue if you're satisfied with letting the BCG slam forward and not care about the noise.
Other problem is the pistol grip and trigger, AR is just more difficult to shoot accurately than decent turnbolt. Your hand position is a compromise, lock time is slow and it's very difficult to get a trigger comparable to something like Tikka T3 (that Rob-E had as the other option).
I have 12.5" and 20" ARs set up for vermin, but if I expect longer range shot I prefer bolt action. If I had to compare distances, let's say I'm confortable shooting bolt action at 1.5x the distance compared to the 20" AR, with similar accuracy expectation. And it's all about ergonomics, not the mechanical gun/ammo accuracy. The 12.5" is still more challenging since it has short forend, but it's very nice to carry (on the chest).
 
I think ‘Tikka’ always set the bar. They are most definitely accurate, reasonably priced, comfortable and come with an adjustable trigger. You can definitely spend more on ‘original’ platforms or rifles with higher spec components if you wish.… I’m not sure whether they add up to significantly better results however. Come what may, so long as you enjoy what you shoot and have a degree of ’pride of ownership’, who cares if it’s a beaten up old family gun or the most up to date carbon fibre go faster strike weapon. The point is just be proud and enjoy what you shoot, whatever that might be.
 
Haven't even handled SP15 but have shot other similar sidecharger. The problem with (un)chambering is that you're fighting against the buffer spring and also the rotating bolt creates extra "resistance" in the process (compared to regular turnbolt). So doing it all quietly is kind of PITA (with non-sidecharger it requires even more dexterity since you have to manipulate charging handle and forward assist at the same time to gradually move the BCG forward). Of course this is not an issue if you're satisfied with letting the BCG slam forward and not care about the noise.
Other problem is the pistol grip and trigger, AR is just more difficult to shoot accurately than decent turnbolt. Your hand position is a compromise, lock time is slow and it's very difficult to get a trigger comparable to something like Tikka T3 (that Rob-E had as the other option).
I have 12.5" and 20" ARs set up for vermin, but if I expect longer range shot I prefer bolt action. If I had to compare distances, let's say I'm confortable shooting bolt action at 1.5x the distance compared to the 20" AR, with similar accuracy expectation. And it's all about ergonomics, not the mechanical gun/ammo accuracy. The 12.5" is still more challenging since it has short forend, but it's very nice to carry (on the chest).
Tikka's are great rifles and you will always have more control with a bolt action than an AR with a side cocking handle.
However, I don't see an issue with noise when removing a round from the chamber as I am finished shooting for the day when that happens. When I leave my vehicle to start shooting, a round goes into the chamber and the safety is applied, no worries about noise from that point onwards. The weapon is re-cocked as soon as a shot is fired and the safety applied, no worries about noise again.
Good quality, well maintained AR's do not suffer with resistance from the rotating bolt.
My SP 15 has great accuracy (German 14.5" barrel & Federal Premium ammo).
All my weapons are pistol grip or thumbhole as I have a shoulder injury and being able to lock the weapon into the body due to its design. I doubt you will find an issue sniper rifle anywhere in the world that does not have a thumbhole stock or pistol grip, what does that say about hand position and accuracy?
I changed the trigger on my Schmeisser not because it was poor, but due to my preference for single stage triggers. I like Timney triggers, but there are many on the market for the AR platform if you are not happy with the factory one.
As the AR is designed to be semi-auto/auto and has a lock time of 10ms, I wonder how you think this is slow?
AR's are not for everyone and what works for you is the important factor when hunting.
The AR's & AK's I have used around the world, have never let me down, but they have all been good quality weapons that were well maintained which equalled accuracy and reliability. If you find you can't be accurate with an AR platform, I would suggest that design is not for you. If you like the AR platform but still struggle with accuracy, it is either lack of practice, lack of confidence, a poor weapon, wrong ammo or training in the weapons system is needed.
If you are anywhere near me I am more than happy to help you sort your AR's out.
 
Let's just agree we have different points of view.

I've been shooting semiauto ARs for 15+ years and my guns are mostly built not bought. I've never met anyone who shoots AR as accurately and consistently as bolt action that has proper ergonomics. Even when I was shooting AR competitively, and no practice with bolt action, I shot bolt better. So cannot recommend AR when the only thing it's better at i.e. semiauto function, is taken away.

And why I prefer semiauto? I shoot mostly raccoon dogs that travel in pairs, and semiauto enables taking the second one more easily since there's no extra noise after the first shot, and I can concentrate 100% on the second beast. They usually startle but stop after second or two, before continuing. So it lights out, since I have the crosshair on the minute it stops. Also prefer tripod over quad sticks for the same reason.
 
Well we agree on tripods.
Bolt action rifles are more accurate, without any doubt, but at normal hunting distance it makes no difference as I know from personal experience. Also there is no problem with consistency in accuracy or working the action if the weapon is looked after.
I am not trying to say one system or stock design is best for everyone, I just disagree with many of your points on the AR platform and its ergonomics. Show me an issue sniper rifle anywhere in the world that does not use a pistol grip or thumbhole stock. If that was an inferior system it just would not be used.
Its not for everyone in the hunting world and I understand that, but to say its inferior is very wrong.
As for semi-autos, I wish my Schmeisser was as that what it was designed to do. Sadly in Britain, we can only have semi-auto .22 rimfires.
 
I have spent the last 6 months looking at reviews, taking advice, YouTube, on here….learned so much!
If buying a brand new .223 then consider the Bergarra B14. Accuracy is manufacturer guaranteed…the build quality for the price is exceptional. If I could afford it…..then the Schultz & Larsen.
However, something I am researching at the moment is the new CZ 600……looks like CZ have re written the rule book here!…it retails in UK for just under £1300🙃!!!
Also, all the popular gun makers have got the tooling now to make accurate barrels so it really comes down to whatever your budget allows and how it feels in the hand.
What did I buy??…..a 30yo Sako S491…with a barrel like an old drainpipe (had it Borescoped)……never been threaded either!!…..so it’s not moderator induced!…….shoots sub1/2 moa at 100yds all day, every day😀 trigger breaks like glass at under 2lbs….bolt is buttery smooth.
Love it😎
 
However, something I am researching at the moment is the new CZ 600……looks like CZ have re written the rule book here!…it retails in UK for just under £1300🙃!!!

Has the recall process now finished? Is the barrel permanently pinned? I like the idea of a factory 6mm creedmoor, but the issues with the rifle put me right off. I see the range version comes with a steel receiver rather than aluminium and tapped for a full (receiver) length Remi700 bases/picatinny. Apologies - this is going off topic.
 
Howa Mini in a chassis would be my choice.

Now come with a 1:8 barrel.

Rails easily available.

Weak points are magazines and arguably the trigger.
 
I have a savage model 16 accustalker.
With 55 grain blitz kings it is very very accurate. At 300 yards all shots into less than 1 inch all day using home loads.1 in 12 twist,Stainless Steel fluted semi heavy barrel with factory screw cut. Fitted with lawerence precision moderator. The quietest moderator I have come across. Synthetic stock with an aluminium bedding frame. Light trigger pull. Detachable 4 shot magazine.
It would be an excellent choice in my mind.
Shoppe.
 
I bought a used Sako 75 with1-12 , plan was a donor that i could shoot a while then re-barrel . Anyhow after a few inches off the barrel , re-thread , crown its shooting just great .
50 Grain eCX Hornady copper.
Remember the military put thousands of rounds through theirs with auto / full auto and its like half the powder of a regular deer rifle .
I like the Sako 75 generally though . I dont want to Buy any of these rifles that they build now with long actions and just pack the magazines out
TBF i think as it shoots good now and likes the ECX copper from Hornady 50 grain , i dont see any rush to swap the original out . Oh and the all metal 75 mags aint expensive now Mags UK keep them ! A true 223 action
 
Using a ruger ranch for goats, nice and short, even with a dpt, for goats you need a minimum 10 round mag, was a bit gritty to start and after perhaps 30 quick shots can get hot.
 
schmeiser sp15, 16" barrel ,ase utra mod , pard 008 with a dfk ir , great foxing set up and really accurate on the range for what it is , them groups are at 100m and that's a 5p next to them
 

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I have a Sako 85 stainless laminate varmint barrel in .223 with a 1 in 8” twist barrel. It’s so good! I also reload so the accuracy is really good. Too good for me! Would highly recommend.
 
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