Which one? 6.5 PRC or 270 WIN

[Ackers-303]

Afternoon all,

I am getting a new rifle, make/spec TBC but a very important part of the purchase is the calibre. My ambition for this rifle would be an all rounder, something that i can take into the hills and hunt at distance (500-600m) to high precision, but also take it to the range and have fun shooting up to 1000m.

My areas of comparison would be ammo availability, cost, barrel life and lethality/energy retention. I see that many manufacturers are offering 6.5 PRC in many models and I would imagine the ammo availability would increase in the future.

Maybe its better to keep it simple? 270win is super accessible and is there realistically an advantage for one over the other?

Any thoughts are appreciated!

Cheers,

Tom

 

[woody]

Both cracking calibres and will do what you want, I use a. 260 for my long range gong banging and over the summer my friend also a stalker on here uses a. 270, we were shooting at 1000 metres, both did the job very well, my 6.5 would have the edge going further better BC going past that distance but I was impressed with his old tikka, let's put it this way you wouldn't want to be standing there with either calibre.

Enjoy whatever you get!

 

[Lateral]

Had a .270, does a good job, but from a reloading point of view, it's an inefficient round, that requires a lot of powder, to achieve the target velocity, commonly with a 130gr bullet. I got circa 2960fps from 60gr's H4831SC.

How much it kicks, will depend on the ammunition, how well the rifle fits, quality of stock, and how recoil shy you are. I found it was no where near as bad as it's reputation, using a moderator.

I got rid of it in favour of a 6.5x47. An excellent round, but not recommended unless it's target only, or you reload. Factory ammunition is scarce.

That said, loading a 129gr bullet, I achieved circa 60fps more than the 270, using 2/3's the powder. Super accurate, and very light recoil. Circa 3015fps, 43gr's of RS60.

I also have a 6.5CM. I have loaded 143gr ELD-x, but running the numbers through QL, it gives circa 3075 using the same 129gr bullet as the 6.5x47, same powder, but 46gr. It does show this load marginally Pmax, so it would have to be worked up, to see.

Running the 6.5PRC, it definitely favours a heavier bullet. I ran the ELD-X 143gr, and it looks impressive. In very general terms, based on a 24.5" barrel (same as my CM) it's giving circa 3091fps, on 66.2gr of RS76, and showing well below Pmax.

If I were looking for another 6.5, I think the PRC would be top of the list. The 270, wouldn't even make the "possibles"

 

[Selous]

You haven’t got a cat in hells chance of finding ammo off the shelf in 6.5 PRC at the moment so it would be handloads only. The 270 would give factory ammo availability but few optimised to long range target use. The best jack of all trades for what you describe is probably the 6.5 Creedmore, however hunting at 600 yards is not something to be entered into lightly. Even the slightest error in range estimation or most significantly wind and you will have a wounded deer to contend with. If you are serious about longer range hunting then I would step up a gear and think about a 7mm or 300 Magnum.

 

[ezzy6.5]

If I was considering a rifle for what you are describing I would probably go 7-08
Maybe 300wm

 

[Eric the Red]

The 6.5PRC will make an excellent all-rounder. Factory ammo is available and even if not the likes of UK Custom Rifles or HPS will make loads for for you for not a load of money, which is the best of both worlds. Josh at UKCR shoots a 6.5PRC himself and so will be able to give great advice. 270 is a fine round, but as has been said, not the most efficient. For the record I have both - and the PRC is the current darling - as is it's bigger brother, the 300.

Just to add - if you really can't decide - get someone to make you a 6.8PRC - and I would be all over that...!

 

[Ackers-303]

You haven’t got a cat in hells chance of finding ammo off the shelf in 6.5 PRC at the moment so it would be handloads only. The 270 would give factory ammo availability but few optimised to long range target use. The best jack of all trades for what you describe is probably the 6.5 Creedmore, however hunting at 600 yards is not something to be entered into lightly. Even the slightest error in range estimation or most significantly wind and you will have a wounded deer to contend with. If you are serious about longer range hunting then I would step up a gear and think about a 7mm or 300 Magnum.

There are a few shops online that supply Hornady ELD and ELD-X factory ammo, but so far i have found only 3 that supply. all around £45-65 for a box of 20, not cheap!

I am certainly conscious of the implications of hunting at long range and the lack of margin for error, hence why I would want to eliminate variables with a higher performing round. Wounding a deer is not on the cards!

 

[Ackers-303]

Had a .270, does a good job, but from a reloading point of view, it's an inefficient round, that requires a lot of powder, to achieve the target velocity, commonly with a 130gr bullet. I got circa 2960fps from 60gr's H4831SC.

How much it kicks, will depend on the ammunition, how well the rifle fits, quality of stock, and how recoil shy you are. I found it was no where near as bad as it's reputation, using a moderator.

I got rid of it in favour of a 6.5x47. An excellent round, but not recommended unless it's target only, or you reload. Factory ammunition is scarce.

That said, loading a 129gr bullet, I achieved circa 60fps more than the 270, using 2/3's the powder. Super accurate, and very light recoil. Circa 3015fps, 43gr's of RS60.

I also have a 6.5CM. I have loaded 143gr ELD-x, but running the numbers through QL, it gives circa 3075 using the same 129gr bullet as the 6.5x47, same powder, but 46gr. It does show this load marginally Pmax, so it would have to be worked up, to see.

Running the 6.5PRC, it definitely favours a heavier bullet. I ran the ELD-X 143gr, and it looks impressive. In very general terms, based on a 24.5" barrel (same as my CM) it's giving circa 3091fps, on 66.2gr of RS76, and showing well below Pmax.

If I were looking for another 6.5, I think the PRC would be top of the list. The 270, wouldn't even make the "possibles"

so what are the factors that make it more efficient? i understand the ballistic properties and what make the bullet more efficient in flight, and given the longer brass leaves less room for longer bullets. Does the shape of the volume of powder make a difference with the burn rate and pressure created?

Would it be safe to say that 6.5PRC will become more available in the future?

 

[Lateral]

The PRC probably will become more popular/more available, BUT, I would be checking your local shops, to see what they can easily get for you.

Personally, as you don't reload, I would look at the 6.5CM, or even the 6.5-284, which is a real performer, and I would expect factory to be more available.

Some cartridges are just more efficient than others. I'm no expert, but I assume it's to so with shoulder angles, newer, better powders, and the 6.5x47, & CM using a small primer pocket, making the brass stronger, allowing more pressure to be run.

If you're wanting to shoot out to 1000yds, you may struggle to find a factory load that's good enough for you. It may be a good time to start reloading, that will open up your choices, and relying on shops to stock what you want.

 

[Ackers-303]

Personally, as you don't reload, I would look at the 6.5CM, or even the 6.5-284, which is a real performer, and I would expect factory to be more available.

I have actually used a 6.5-284 and also a 6-284 up in northumberland back in the summer. Really easy to control and comfy to shoot. Will certainly look into it!

If you're wanting to shoot out to 1000yds, you may struggle to find a factory load that's good enough for you. It may be a good time to start reloading, that will open up your choices, and relying on shops to stock what you want.

Im not sure i could afford to invest into reloading quite yet! More space, time and money is needed i think. Any recommendations for custom ammo shops? How much would custom ammo cost compared to factory ammo?

 

[rem284]

6.5 would be my recommendation. I have 6.5-284, 6.5x47 and a 270. If I had the choice I would not have the 270. Dont get me wrong, it does the job of shooting deer but the 6.5-284 does it a lot better especially on distance. It is a lot kinder to shoot too. I have only used the 6.5x47 under 200m but it is the easiest one to shoot because of the little recoil and so accurate. If I was to want another long range performer then it would more than likely be a 6.5prc, either that or another 6.5-284

 

[roebuck14]

Look at 284 winchester in a long action

 

[Selous]

hence why I would want to eliminate variables with a higher performing round. Wounding a deer is not on the cards!

Please bear in mind that a higher performing round will not eliminate variables, only produce a reduction in the degree of bullet drop and drift in wind. The further out you shoot the the chance of wounding increases exponentially. If you can get onto a range like Eskdalemuir where you can safely experiment with elevation adjustments and wind calls safely then definitely do so. It is humbling to see accomplished long range competition shooters getting foxed by the wind downrange. Even at a modest 300m the bullet can easily drift enough to turn a perfect heart/lung shot to a gut shot even with the most aerodynamic bullet!
I’m not meaning to come across all preachy but from your question it sounds like you probably haven’t done much stalking (apologies in advance if this is wrong)

 

[Ackers-303]

Please bear in mind that a higher performing round will not eliminate variables, only produce a reduction in the degree of bullet drop and drift in wind. The further out you shoot the the chance of wounding increases exponentially. If you can get onto a range like Eskdalemuir where you can safely experiment with elevation adjustments and wind calls safely then definitely do so. It is humbling to see accomplished long range competition shooters getting foxed by the wind downrange. Even at a modest 300m the bullet can easily drift enough to turn a perfect heart/lung shot to a gut shot even with the most aerodynamic bullet!
I’m not meaning to come across all preachy but from your question it sounds like you probably haven’t done much stalking (apologies in advance if this is wrong)

Of course, one cannot 'eliminate variables', not ideal language on my part. Just emphasizing my desire to have the correct calibre for that application. Im well aware of of how much wind can make a bullet to all sorts of wierd things (but by no means an expert)

The stalking I have done is quite basic to be honest and so far in close environments (not much more than 100m) where wind isnt really a factor. I certainly haven't done any stalking at longer ranges, but definitly want to! hence the thread title.

 

[6pt-sika]

I have rifles for both cartridges . I’ve killed a fair number of deer with a 270 using both factory and handloads . In the PRC I’ve just shot paper with handloads using the Hornady 143 ELD-X and the 140 SST . I cannot imagine them not doing a bang up job on deer !

 

[User00033]

The most important thing for you to do here @Ackers-303, is to understand that you must filter out all the responses from guys that never have, and never will, shoot deer at 500-600m. You need advice specifically from blokes that do shoot like this regularly and have done for a good while. The forum is replete with armchair experts not qualified by experience, but by opinion formed entirely subjectively.

The 6.5 PRC is superior to the .270 Win for distance hunting in one critically important way - it was specifically designed for it, using hundreds of years of combined experience of clever Hornady engineers. The numbers alone do not make the distinction as clear you might think - at 500m, the .270 Win doesn’t lag that far behind assuming you are using a bullet like the 145gr ELD-X in Hornady Precision Hunter, and you don’t have a short barrel.

Where the 6.5 PRC has a significant advantage is internal ballistics. Very clever people know what happens inside a cartridge at the moment of ignition, but suffice to say cartridge design has come a long, long way since 1925. So the 6.5 PRC has all the precision and accuracy gains developed over the course of the last couple of decades, as benchrest design philosophies like 30° shoulder angles have made their way into broader use, and in particular hunting rounds. As it takes off, which it will, more 6.5 hunting bullets will hit the market and more factory ammunition offerings will have ballistically superior bullets. The 6.5 PRC twist of 1:8” is much more useable and flexible, whereas the 1:10” twist .270 Win is maxxed out with the 145gr ELD-X and can’t accurately shoot anything longer.

The only reason you would select a .270 Win over a 6.5 PRC is ammunition availability, which almost certainly won’t be the problem some will claim as it is usually solved with a relatively easy internet search.

Regarding shooting deer at distance. You’ll get a lot of naysayers on here, simply though lack of experience, the culture, tradition and so on. You would be better off using one of the specialist long range forums or a forum in a country like New Zealand where a 500m deer with a 6.5 doesn’t bat an eyelid. What @srvet is getting at though is 100% valid, its not something you start doing after having only done close range stalking. You need a lot of practice and the best way to do that is to shoot gongs at varying ranges in varying conditions, on a property where you have proper natural terrain, shooting prone. Use flags along the line of sight to learn the wind, be prepared to get frustrated, make sure that you don’t start getting stingy on the amount you are shooting because the ammo is expensive. Believe me, shooting off the bench at Bisley won’t cut it, you need to shoot in the field.

Build up your confidence with experience, if you are a natural shot then it won’t be too long before you are pinging the 1 MOA gong at 600m.

 

[rem284]

The most important thing for you to do here @Ackers-303, is to understand that you must filter out all the responses from guys that never have, and never will, shoot deer at 500-600m. You need advice specifically from blokes that do shoot like this regularly and have done for a good while. The forum is replete with armchair experts not qualified by experience, but by opinion formed entirely subjectively.

The 6.5 PRC is superior to the .270 Win for distance hunting in one critically important way - it was specifically designed for it, using hundreds of years of combined experience of clever Hornady engineers. The numbers alone do not make the distinction as clear you might think - at 500m, the .270 Win doesn’t lag that far behind assuming you are using a bullet like the 145gr ELD-X in Hornady Precision Hunter, and you don’t have a short barrel.

Where the 6.5 PRC has a significant advantage is internal ballistics. Very clever people know what happens inside a cartridge at the moment of ignition, but suffice to say cartridge design has come a long, long way since 1925. So the 6.5 PRC has all the precision and accuracy gains developed over the course of the last couple of decades, as benchrest design philosophies like 30° shoulder angles have made their way into broader use, and in particular hunting rounds. As it takes off, which it will, more 6.5 hunting bullets will hit the market and more factory ammunition offerings will have ballistically superior bullets. The 6.5 PRC twist of 1:8” is much more useable and flexible, whereas the 1:10” twist .270 Win is maxxed out with the 145gr ELD-X and can’t accurately shoot anything longer.

The only reason you would select a .270 Win over a 6.5 PRC is ammunition availability, which almost certainly won’t be the problem some will claim as it is usually solved with a relatively easy internet search.

Regarding shooting deer at distance. You’ll get a lot of naysayers on here, simply though lack of experience, the culture, tradition and so on. You would be better off using one of the specialist long range forums or a forum in a country like New Zealand where a 500m deer with a 6.5 doesn’t bat an eyelid. What @srvet is getting at though is 100% valid, its not something you start doing after having only done close range stalking. You need a lot of practice and the best way to do that is to shoot gongs at varying ranges in varying conditions, on a property where you have proper natural terrain, shooting prone. Use flags along the line of sight to learn the wind, be prepared to get frustrated, make sure that you don’t start getting stingy on the amount you are shooting because the ammo is expensive. Believe me, shooting off the bench at Bisley won’t cut it, you need to shoot in the field.

Build up your confidence with experience, if you are a natural shot then it won’t be too long before you are pinging the 1 MOA gong at 600m.

Excellent, well said

 

[Ackers-303]

Thank you for your response @dodgyknees, I would say that pretty much clears it up! you are absolutely right in saying i need more practice as i certainly do. This is a long term hobby, and its my ultimate ambition to get into long range hunting. Getting the right gear is one step in the right direction, and this is an important part of it. im always up for a challenge, and an advocate for progression. Target shooting with the ARA (not as much as i would like) has introduced my to the intricacies of shooting at range, especially the effect of wind, and as for being stingy for ammo, im quite the opposite! (i often over step the mark and my wallet does not like it)

I appreciate your honest words @dodgyknees!

 

[Malxwal]

Look at 284 winchester in a long action

Zero factory ammo. The heartbreak of loosing the brass you've lovingly expanded, neck turned, first fired etc etc

 

[dropmdead]

How about building a 300wm....
Easy for factory ammo - everything from PPU to full match.
If it's being built to your spec, you can have a tighter than normal twist so you can run 215gr Berger's.

There's plenty of good factory rifle offerings, but going this far, why not go custom?

You will always find good hunting ammo, and plenty of reloading advice as and when needed.