Which shotgun made in England should I choose?

[NorHunt]

It will be going to Texas - almost guaranteed

I know a few folk from there, buying Holts stock in bulk for personal collections and US resale at huge prices compared to the UK.

They really appreciate our fine guns over there, we just want plastic shjite here these days

I wouldn't be surprised if it's going overseas.
I have been following auctions on egun.de with a german friend of mine.
He said there are fake buyers 'heating' up the price before it is shipped overseas.
I have also seen auctions on Holt's where guns are been sold at a low price, and in a few weeks they are being sold again overseas with at price increase that I think is embarrassing, or should I call it a scam...

Being in, out or between EU or whatever England, Norway and the rest of Europe are with the hugh difference in currency between EUR, NOK and GBP makes me lose my interest....
On top of that, the greed that came in connection with the covid period made manufacturers and importers increase their profit, is something that is some of the worst I hopefully will experience in my life...I hope.


Well that was my Sunday morning speech.
Have a beautiful Sunday morning.

Regards

 

[Flash G 74]

Hello, Why not come to UK and buy one in a reputable Guns Smith that will sort the export papers to, That way you can pick a gun that is right for your shooting

 

[NorHunt]

Hello, Why not come to UK and buy one in a reputable Guns Smith that will sort the export papers to, That way you can pick a gun that is right for your shooting

...I'm considering that solution.
My mother came from Dublin, so I have te opportunity to get in contact with family living in London and make arrangements to be able to buy a gun without any greedy vultures 'helping' me.
My approved firearm application is valid only 2 more weeks.(valid for one year)
So I have to get it extended for another 6 months (maximum).
Then I need a import license for this application.
'Easy peasy' some would say, since Norway started using a digital register in 2025/2026.(12.4 billion NOK in budget).
But the result is the opposite.
4 weeks processing time i 2024/2025. (Paper)
20-24 weeks processing time in 2026 (digital)
No telephone number only mail.

I will admit, I'm not the patient one...

 

[Heym SR20]

I wouldn't be surprised if it's going overseas.
I have been following auctions on egun.de with a german friend of mine.
He said there are fake buyers 'heating' up the price before it is shipped overseas.
I have also seen auctions on Holt's where guns are been sold at a low price, and in a few weeks they are being sold again overseas with at price increase that I think is embarrassing, or should I call it a scam...

Being in, out or between EU or whatever England, Norway and the rest of Europe are with the hugh difference in currency between EUR, NOK and GBP makes me lose my interest....
On top of that, the greed that came in connection with the covid period made manufacturers and importers increase their profit, is something that is some of the worst I hopefully will experience in my life...I hope.


Well that was my Sunday morning speech.
Have a beautiful Sunday morning.

Regards

Markets vary hugely. The dealers buy at Auction. They have gunsmiths on hand that can sort out any issues. Mostly it small things. A good clean and a polish of the internals. Possibly a new spring or two. These days of laser welding, rejointing a loose gun is not a difficult job. Stocks - a quick clean up to remove decades of grime, possibly raise a dent or two, replace a hardened recoil pad, and a few coats of oil.

The dealer can then sell the gun with confidence and provide a warranty for a few years. A buyer will know that the gun works and we will be good for another couple of generations.

There is plenty of demand for good brands, and especially good sidelocks. Spend a few thousand on a gun with a decent set of barrels, a grand on a decent service and you have in your hands a piece of very fine gunmaking for less money than a mid / top range over and under from the likes of Beretta, Blaser or Browning. If you want a new British Sidelock you will spend the equivalent of a top end luxury car.

But you absolutely do need to be careful. There are plenty of guns in the market that have been messed with over the years, and can be absolute money pits. You need the skills and time to look at and assess these sorts of things.

If I were you, get on a cheap flight from Norway and come across to the UK and spend some time looking at British Guns.

Only you can tell what fits, what you like etc. Auctions are a good, but also working with a dealer whom you trust. I bought an Alex Martin sidelock a few years ago. Before I bought it, the dealer took me down to the local clay ground at West Wycombe, along with a couple of other guns that I was more interested in. Those other guns just didn’t work for me. Don’t know why really, now’t wrong with them, but for me just didn’t work. The Alex just worked from first shot and an extension of me. 10 years on I have had ten years of joy using it. I probably could have got a similar gun a bit cheaper, but all the fun of buying it and a service three years after I bought it all included, I was more than happy.

 

[nightcrow]

...bare with me gents...

I'm trying to find a shotgun made in England.
Side by side.
Straight stock.
Caliber 12/70, or 12/65 if that is the last option...

Which shotguns are made in England and are good enough for clay training and grouse hunting?



My budget is £1000 for the shotgun,
export, VAT and tax is in addition.


Thanks.

A friend bought a Cogswell and Harrison gamekeepers model in a farm auction forty years ago for £6,it looked very plain but I'll never forget the balance and feel of it.

 

[Heym SR20]

...I'm considering that solution.
My mother came from Dublin, so I have te opportunity to get in contact with family living in London and make arrangements to be able to buy a gun without any greedy vultures 'helping' me.
My approved firearm application is valid only 2 more weeks.(valid for one year)
So I have to get it extended for another 6 months (maximum).
Then I need a import license for this application.
'Easy peasy' some would say, since Norway started using a digital register in 2025/2026.(12.4 billion NOK in budget).
But the result is the opposite.
4 weeks processing time i 2024/2025. (Paper)
20-24 weeks processing time in 2026 (digital)
No telephone number only mail.

I will admit, I'm not the patient one...

Be patient is an absolute necessity with older guns. Being in a rush is expensive.

Good dealers and gunsmiths with a long term reputation will offer a good service. They may seem expensive, but you are paying for their skills.

If you want a cheap functional side by side, buy an AyA. They work. In many ways they are the final iteration of British gunmaking. The AyA range was developed with the British market in mind, they are built in the same way to design taking all the best and most functional designs of the British Trade. They are built in Basque country of Spain using good steel, and built and finished by hand at the bench by gunsmiths. The cheaper end by apprentices, top end by master craftsmen. A 1960’s, 70’s or 80’s AyA is probably better buy than a late cheap British Gun.

 

[enfieldspares]

. A 1960’s, 70’s or 80’s AyA is probably better buy than a late cheap British gun.

This. Saving aside my late father's Henry Clarke and my French Manufrance 28E easy opener ALL my "English" side by side boxlock ejectors are AYA No4 (1 x 28" factory long stock, 1 x 27" standard length stock, 1 x 20 bore) plus the one I really prefer a Yeoman Ejector as despite being 28" it matches more nearly the handling and weight of my father's 30" Henry Clarke.

For "best" I sold my Boss and have a Somerton Guns made by Parkremy self-opener factory long stock with articulated front trigger and rolled edge triggerguard. And for my thirty plus son a Gunmark Viscount. Not of course as "best" as was the Boss but in some respects better as any loss if they were to become scrapped is under £1000.

To my mind a good order Yeoman Ejector is a superior gun to a No4 as it is plain and has two plain side nails not the over complicated four screw in pins of the No4. So no stuck threads if the gun needs stripping out! The raised rib I can live with but some in fact prefer it.

I've owned three Webley 700 but actually preferred the AYA No4 despite the Webley in terms of outside appearance being the better finished product but never liked its engraving. To me a gun should be fully covered and finely covered as in my Boss or fully plain as in the AYA Yeman Ejector or indeed my father's Henry Clarke.

 

[NorHunt]

Hello, There are gun shops in UK who will export to another country like Norway, Do a search online, Do you know your stock measurements ???

My preferred LOP would be 14,5 inches.

 

[enfieldspares]

My preferred LOP would be 14,5 inches.

At six foot tall? That can't be right. Come to London having booked a fitting at Holland & Holland's ground at Northolt. Arrive an hour early and enjoy a coffee or tea to let your body relax into its natural at rest posture. They'll give you a set of measurements for both their system of stocking and on request the more usual system used by everybody else. That is without the "swamped" at the face style that Holland's use. Once you have that then, again, you can read an auction catalogue and discount anything that1) Isn't 70mm chambered 2) doesn't fit, 3) isn't choked as you'd like. Yes it will cost but also they will correct any poor mounting technique and what's more in the long term it will save you buying a gun that isn't right for your height, size and shape. So called gunfittings done inside a shop premises are worthless.

 

[Heym SR20]

Dig Hadeoke’s Vintage Gun Journal always worth a good read.

In this article regarding a 1980’s built Purdey. These cost, according to Dig about £10,000 or the equivalent of a VW Golf GTI.

These days Purdeys are about £200,000 - about 5 Golf GTi’s

A Minty Purdey

1986 Purdey SLE barely used. Two sets of barrels. A remarkable Purdey gun with two sets of barrels, from 1986, showing no sign of use.

www.vintageguns.co.uk

 

[NorHunt]

At six foot tall? That can't be right. Come to London having booked a fitting at Holland & Holland's ground at Northolt. Arrive an hour early and enjoy a coffee or tea to let your body relax into its natural at rest posture. They'll give you a set of measurements for both their system of stocking and on request the more usual system used by everybody else. That is without the "swamped" at the face style that Holland's use. Once you have that then, again, you can read an auction catalogue and discount anything that1) Isn't 70mm chambered 2) doesn't fit, 3) isn't choked as you'd like. Yes it will cost but also they will correct any poor mounting technique and what's more in the long term it will save you buying a gun that isn't right for your height, size and shape. So called gunfittings done inside a shop premises are worthless.

Hmmm...point taken.
Holt's has a department in Norway called www.bestguns.no
There you have the possibility to do some measurements and do some clay shooting.
It seems like that could be a wise thing to do.

 

[Flash G 74]

Hmmm...point taken.
Holt's has a department in Norway called www.bestguns.no
There you have the possibility to do some measurements and do some clay shooting.
It seems like that could be a wise thing to do.

Hello, That sounds a good bet, Could they import you a shotgun ??

 

[enfieldspares]

Hmmm...point taken.
Holt's has a department in Norway called www.bestguns.no
There you have the possibility to do some measurements and do some clay shooting.
It seems like that could be a wise thing to do.

That sounds good. But for sure enjoy a visit to London and have a fitting at Holland and Holland. That way if you do buy a gun through Holt's and should it need choke boring or the fitting altering slightly they can liaise with a gunsmith in the UK and maybe have that work done in the UK before it comes out to you in Norway? You do NOT need to have Holland's do any stock alterations for you as the give you their measurements on a document that you take away when you have done.

 

[NorHunt]

Hello, That sounds a good bet, Could they import you a shotgun ??

Yes.
But the price....

 

[NorHunt]

That sounds good. But for sure enjoy a visit to London and have a fitting at Holland and Holland. That way if you do buy a gun through Holt's and should it need choke boring or the fitting altering slightly they can liaise with a gunsmith in the UK and maybe have that work done in the UK before it comes out to you in Norway? You do NOT need to have Holland's do any stock alterations for you as the give you their measurements on a document that you take away when you have done

 

[NorHunt]

Good idea.
I have to do some enquiries and do some thinking.
Many good points given and will probably come along.
I realise that you gents have hundreds of used shotguns to choose between in your marketplaces, I have two in Norway as of today...

 

[NorHunt]

Yes.
But the price....

Sorry, short answer.
But most likely 'they' are members and joining this site.
I don’t want to give any numbers regarding their services...

 

[Heym SR20]

Sorry, short answer.
But most likely 'they' are members and joining this site.
I don’t want to give any numbers regarding their services...

I would suggest that their price is pretty competitive and will reflect the actual costs of importing a gun. They will be doing it all the time and hence know what to do.

Alternatively you can come across to the UK on a visitors firearms permit, which allows you to buy a gun here and then take back with you. You will then need to deal with the Norwegian authorities.

Generally shipping a gun cost a few hundred pounds. It is cheaper per gun if you ship several at once.

If i was in your position I would be looking around in Norway for a gun.

As to stock length, it is very much a matter of your body shape, length of arms. I am 6ft and I like a 14 1/2 to 15” long stock. But I have long arms.

 

[NorHunt]

I would suggest that their price is pretty competitive and will reflect the actual costs of importing a gun. They will be doing it all the time and hence know what to do.

Alternatively you can come across to the UK on a visitors firearms permit, which allows you to buy a gun here and then take back with you. You will then need to deal with the Norwegian authorities.

Generally shipping a gun cost a few hundred pounds. It is cheaper per gun if you ship several at once.

If i was in your position I would be looking around in Norway for a gun.

As to stock length, it is very much a matter of your body shape, length of arms. I am 6ft and I like a 14 1/2 to 15” long stock. But I have long arms.

Hi!

If the price is competitive I don't see any problem buying a Webley & Scott from 1957 in Norway for a price around 15-20000,- NOK...

Visitor firearms permit...?
I have to look into that possibility!

I checked my LOP yesterday on my Merkel 140 with double triggers.
Rear trigger is 14 inches (too short)
Front trigger is 15 inches (too long)
It wasn't a 100% measurement, but still...

And now my head starts spinning with different solutions...

 

[Heym SR20]

Hi!

If the price is competitive I don't see any problem buying a Webley & Scott from 1957 in Norway for a price around 15-20000,- NOK...

Visitor firearms permit...?
I have to look into that possibility!

I checked my LOP yesterday on my Merkel 140 with double triggers.
Rear trigger is 14 inches (too short)
Front trigger is 15 inches (too long)
It wasn't a 100% measurement, but still...

And now my head starts spinning with different solutions...

A Webley & Scott from 1957 that is already in Norway and that you can look at and handle will be a damn good buy. I would always buying a gun that you can look at, pick up and ideally shoot before you buy.

A Webley of 1957 will probably have 70mm or 2 3/4” chambers, rather than the more traditional 2 1/2” or 65mm chambers. That will allow pretty much any normal cartridge to be used.

A good majority of British boxlocks were in any case Webley and Scotts, but then have a local name added to them. As I said in a previous post W&S produced lots of guns for the trade, with all types of different fences, engravings etc. indeed they would supply them in a semi finished state so that the local smith could file / chisel up the fences, engrave, and finish the metal work. I think the stocks may have been fitted but need final shaping and finishing or the local smith would have done all the stock work from a blank.

Westley Richards didn’t make many guns for the trade. They have a very distinctive style of top lever where the lever cams itself down the tang. The top lever is very wide at the head. Saying that I have seen a few guns un named with this very distinctive style of opening mechanism.

I do really like Merkels. I have an AyA Coral which is Spanish copy of one. The fact that you are used to double triggers is a good thing. My Coral handles like a side by side rather than an over and under, and I suspect Merkels will be the same.