You have played right into their hands, this to me shows how dated the BASC attitude is, social media, something you repeatedly fail to address is going to have a field day with this. I'll be cancelling my membership, your leadership is too far removed from the general membership. Perhaps your media team should be replaced as well
Wild justice challenge against releasing non native game birds
- Thread starter jimbo1984
- Start date
Forgive me for suggesting the above does not show that, rather it shows a dawning realisation that the future of our collective sport cannot be left to anybody who is not prepared to be upbraided if they fail in their task. Worth a look at the gaffes in the orgs past histories to realise why what is said above, is said.
Mick9abf
Well-Known Member
Quite probably because the people in the position of doing something about it aren’t going to face the problem head on and avoid spending members money and being pro-active where it counts - in direct challenging publicly and on social media.
You can write to as many MP’s as you want and they will tell you what you want to hear until the vocal majority sway on social media looks like it might lose them (MP’s) support, and take them away from the trough at which point they will throw you under the bus without a thought.
Wild Justice and all anti shooting groups have evolved and continually alter their tactics and media strategy to find another way to attack and force their will on the shooting industry, we need to do the same and be pro-active in that. For example they moderate heavily and any posts that show pro fieldsports can disappear- then people looking to research and form their own opinion only see that side.
I’d say the moorland groups have finally realised that they need to work hard but they are ten years behind in how they do their business are unfunded and literally have a mountain to climb as young people (support) are easy swayed when various media platforms are used to say ‘shooting bad’.
Unfortunately the organisations that are meant to be standing up for us continue to roll out the same old tactics and avoid meeting the problem, which won’t go away and will only get worse, head on.
Till we, by which I mean the various organisations join together and change tactics to meet them head on we are on a hiding to nothing, and dare I say, my sons will never get the opportunities I have had.
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CarlW
Well-Known Member
I know BASC have some enormous failings and have let us down significantly in the past. However, I do feel that we have now got to the point on this forum where we rail against anything that they do. They really cannot win. Whatever they say, they get smashed by us lot.
Surely, we can find a different, more productive, way of engaging with our largest shooting organisation? We also have a responsibility to make this relationship work...and we are failing too.
Kind regards,
Carl
Surely, we can find a different, more productive, way of engaging with our largest shooting organisation? We also have a responsibility to make this relationship work...and we are failing too.
Kind regards,
Carl
Mick9abf
Well-Known Member
Carl I never openly gave my opinion of what I thought until now and have been a member for a long time which will end in January.
They again avoid dealing with an issue head on, I only think they stuck their head above the parapet because they risk losing members = money as the vast majority are fed up as I explained on one of their recent questionnaires.
Have a little look at the top story here and tell me BASC have done a good job (read the comments as well)........
Raptor Persecution UK
This award-winning blog has been created to raise awareness of the illegal killing of birds of prey in the United Kingdom. The photo shows a dead golden eagle, found poisoned (with a banned toxin) on a grouse moor inside the Cairngorms National Park. It's just one of thousands of birds of prey...
raptorpersecutionscotland.wordpress.com
I could go on
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I do not think this debate is 'infighting' .
If you ( and I bet you have not !) paid a membership to the ' Voice of Shooting' for 38 years like me
Then you would expect ( nay demand
) that they fight for your shooting interests ?????
If you just want shoot insurance ( not game crisps, ladies fashion advice, discounts on £80K + motors , quality claret and admission to the BASC Media Centre ( which is Bill Harriman's 'snooker club' with antiques roadshow pics on the wall , now Ian Bell stores the old regimental Photos - ex- military, leading from the front
( first ST interview he talked about a 'non- confrontational approach') - you walk in to the media centre (by torchlight as it's not connected to the mains !!!, ) Bill Harriman is dressed in no 2 whites ' subaltern' smock, silver tray etc. and Ian Bell asks for the 2 'usual' ( hidden behind the Schoffell branded BASC gilets ( de -rigueur for the new entrants, there have been many since Bell got the CEO job after the ALI / ex PLOD ' I will kill you events causing police attendance 
)
................and The exiting chairman ( only just made silk) - Lincolns' Inn must be sighing a sense of relief that he did not go for JR on the medical issue ( we were MARSHED by CC Marsh of somerset )
still, keep the £8M in the bank for the Game Fairs !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
If you ( and I bet you have not !) paid a membership to the ' Voice of Shooting' for 38 years like me
Then you would expect ( nay demand
) that they fight for your shooting interests ?????If you just want shoot insurance ( not game crisps, ladies fashion advice, discounts on £80K + motors , quality claret and admission to the BASC Media Centre ( which is Bill Harriman's 'snooker club' with antiques roadshow pics on the wall , now Ian Bell stores the old regimental Photos - ex- military, leading from the front
( first ST interview he talked about a 'non- confrontational approach') - you walk in to the media centre (by torchlight as it's not connected to the mains !!!, ) Bill Harriman is dressed in no 2 whites ' subaltern' smock, silver tray etc. and Ian Bell asks for the 2 'usual' ( hidden behind the Schoffell branded BASC gilets ( de -rigueur for the new entrants, there have been many since Bell got the CEO job after the ALI / ex PLOD ' I will kill you events causing police attendance )................and The exiting chairman ( only just made silk) - Lincolns' Inn must be sighing a sense of relief that he did not go for JR on the medical issue ( we were MARSHED by CC Marsh of somerset )
still, keep the £8M in the bank for the Game Fairs !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
CarlW
Well-Known Member
I don't seek to persuade you that BASC have done a good job. I am furious too.Carl I never openly gave my opinion of what I thought until now and have been a member for a long time which will end in January.
They again avoid dealing with an issue head on, I only think they stuck their head above the parapet because they risk losing members = money as the vast majority are fed up as I explained on one of their recent questionnaires.
Have a little look at the top story here and tell me BASC have done a good job....
Raptor Persecution UK
This award-winning blog has been created to raise awareness of the illegal killing of birds of prey in the United Kingdom. The photo shows a dead golden eagle, found poisoned (with a banned toxin) on a grouse moor inside the Cairngorms National Park. It's just one of thousands of birds of prey...
However, continuing to beat the cr@p out of them is getting us nowhere. We need to help them to help us: not keep turning on them like a baying mob.
We also risk undermining the quality of our own debate: it is now so unfashionable to support anything that BASC says or does that we spend all of our time angrily agreeing with one another.
We need to change the nature of our conversation with them. This current self-indulgence is simply getting in the way of rational debate.
Best wishes,
Carl
Mick9abf
Well-Known Member
I’m in complete agreement Carl but it seems that the BASC don’t want to ‘debate’ on an open forum with what is essentially our enemy. It does not put BASC in a good light with either interested parties or with the general and uninformed public who lap up the likes of Chris Packham I’d dare to say....
CarlW
Well-Known Member
A separate discussion for another day, and I know this is an unpopular view, but I also think the Game Fair is the wrong forum for such a debate. It is too high-risk from a PR perspective.
However, the real issue for us here is that it is quite normal for us all to have different judgments on the above question: unless it involves BASC...when we insist upon disagreeing with them...even if we don't ...
Mick9abf
Well-Known Member
Well I think that the forum being a Game Fair is largely irrelevant now as it has turned into a PR disaster for field sports and shooting anyway as it has already been spun that way. It could have worked well with questions from the audience which can put people on the spot and make mistakes which I appreciate works both ways.
Things are only high risk if you don’t have the correct people and/or person to take the reigns and interview and answer questions in an open debate. It seems quite clear that from the cancellation neither the Countryside Alliance, BASC and GWCT have an individual(s) who can, the reasons of why not is a question in itself.
CarlW
Well-Known Member
My concerns are not about whether we would win the debate; rather that Packham & Co. not be given the opportunity to exploit any small indiscretions on the day by the more emotional members of our broad fieldsports community.
Mick9abf
Well-Known Member
I understand where your coming from but then would anyone be that stupid (in fact I know the answer), the problem is this is not just a bad PR day for game shooting, their supporters are already questioning if people who might be a threat to them should have firearms.
That opens up avenues for other groups who would ban private firearm ownership altogether to exploit. A total (and avoidable) own goal. Sometimes victory comes with risk and you need to embrace that risk to play the game, and win.
reloader54
Well-Known Member
he doesn't need a game fair to do that,,, he has the bbc. as I have stated before, the modus operandi of these people is to goad and poke until they get the reaction they desire. then film only that, do you think charlie doesn't realise that? do you think ,,really, they would succumb to physically harming packham or the others and want the accelerated demise of field sports on their own backs?
do you not wonder why someone has not simply given packham a slap already,, he's not that hard to spot, we all know what he looks like, his address is on the net in full view, I'll send it to you if you want. the shooters of this forum myself included need to vent our disdain for this lying media attention seeking unstable narcissist, but every one of knows lay one finger on him and you can kiss any guns and associated hobbies goodbye, and I cant see you being welcome here or at any future game fair. a controlled set of questions by charlie and co would quite likely caused packham to be the one who became infuriated and harmed his cause by his meltdown when faced with facts and not his skewed logic and lies.
and that opportunity has been taken away,, unfortunately by the very people you thought would lead the charge.
Mick9abf
Well-Known Member
To be fair to Charlie he’s too nice, what we really need is a fieldsports version of Andrew Neil doing the questioning, well informed, polite but absolutely cutting who gives no quarter. I enjoy his interviews as he destroys politicians with facts and I’m yet to see one get the better of him, this is type of interviewer fieldsports need when dealing with the likes of Avery, Packham etc.
countrryboy
Well-Known Member
I think Carl is spot on as was the basc boy earlier, despite wot some off the bashers think I don't have basc coloured specs on.
There shortcomings are glaringly obvious but there are still the best org out there by 100 miles ( which is equally depressing).
I'm sure Conor? has plenty contacts in the industry too just as jackoby does, if he thinks there is something fishy there dead right not to leap in.
It's a very well looking for a fight but u still have to pick ur fights if u want to win any.
I can see why jackoby is upset and storing a wee bit as that would be his biggest audience ever.
If they are so scared of debate why did they agree to go on GMTV??
Any debate at the game fair would be a complete waste of time.
P a khan has an agenda which is why he agreed to it.
It would not surprise me if he said some completely outlandish statements ( even for him) just to get a negative reaction from crowd. Off course any provocation nicely edited out.
The debate needs to happen and soon I have a bad feeling over the next 2 or so weeks will be a heap of stories held back for this week..
So really basc need to start using this media centre and there many alleged contacts.
Esp on grouse moors the amount of ground nesting birds is just staggering compared to other similar ground.
There shortcomings are glaringly obvious but there are still the best org out there by 100 miles ( which is equally depressing).
I'm sure Conor? has plenty contacts in the industry too just as jackoby does, if he thinks there is something fishy there dead right not to leap in.
It's a very well looking for a fight but u still have to pick ur fights if u want to win any.
I can see why jackoby is upset and storing a wee bit as that would be his biggest audience ever.
If they are so scared of debate why did they agree to go on GMTV??
Any debate at the game fair would be a complete waste of time.
P a khan has an agenda which is why he agreed to it.
It would not surprise me if he said some completely outlandish statements ( even for him) just to get a negative reaction from crowd. Off course any provocation nicely edited out.
The debate needs to happen and soon I have a bad feeling over the next 2 or so weeks will be a heap of stories held back for this week..
So really basc need to start using this media centre and there many alleged contacts.
Esp on grouse moors the amount of ground nesting birds is just staggering compared to other similar ground.
Conor O'Gorman
Well-Known Member
I empathise with all the sentiments expressed thus far and will reflect on all of them. These are challenging times and if any BASC members would like to drop me a line or phone me with ideas and feedback on how BASC should promote and protect shooting that would be most appreciated. PM me and let's discuss further.
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