Would you change a .243 for a 6.5x55?

[Davie]

Thar did you not keep banging a drum about how you mate from across the pond picks up a hornet and heads shoots everything and making as if this was great . Now i have missed and i have wounded no surprise there so i would not want to go taking fancy neck shots heads shots at distance.
With regards the 6.5 i love it and for me it performs perfectly.
With regards your runner of 100 .100s of yards was this not the roe buck that lost all the members of your syndicate there shooting as the forestry accused you of down right poaching Maybe if you had used a 6.5 you wouldn't have had to travel so far over the clearly marked boundary.
There 6.5 delvers the bullet at a perfect speed for enough penetration to enter the beast and then expands quickly to maximise energy transfer.
No one needs any more than that.
With regards the size of that stag the large one it was well over 200kilo on the hook. That is one of many stags of similar size all shot with a 6.5.

 

[ejg]

If one recomends a cartridge to other stalkers, it is not about one little advantage, it is about the whole package. Lets have a look at the swede compared to say a 308 for a stalker and not a long range target expert with a 32 inch barrel.

Weight of rifle: 308 short action, lighter and handier
Barrel length vs lost velocity: 308 (faster powder)
Energy at up to 500yds: 308
Speed / less drop: 308 (150gr) vs 6.5 (140gr)
Bullet choice: 100-220gr 308 and bigger selection
Ammo availability: 308
Ammo choice: 308
Cheap ammo for practice: 308
Efficiency of cartridge: more power with way less powder, 308
Versatility: both: 308 deer and boar, 6.5 small deer and fox

If one looks at that, then how could one suggest a 6.5 for mainly deer stalking??

Of course a 6.5 kills deer, but not always as quick as some other calibers.
Another way of looking at it, a thousand average hunters stalk for ten years, with which deer caliber will the average death period of the deer be shorter? Runners?
edi

 

[viking]

I vote for .375H&H or even .303British.
But then again 1 of the calibres is all I have and the other 1 is 1 I would like.

 

[Thar]

Thar did you not keep banging a drum about how you mate from across the pond picks up a hornet and heads shoots everything and making as if this was great . Now i have missed and i have wounded no surprise there so i would not want to go taking fancy neck shots heads shots at distance.
With regards the 6.5 i love it and for me it performs perfectly.
With regards your runner of 100 .100s of yards was this not the roe buck that lost all the members of your syndicate there shooting as the forestry accused you of down right poaching Maybe if you had used a 6.5 you wouldn't have had to travel so far over the clearly marked boundary.
There 6.5 delvers the bullet at a perfect speed for enough penetration to enter the beast and then expands quickly to maximise energy transfer.
No one needs any more than that.
With regards the size of that stag the large one it was well over 200kilo on the hook. That is one of many stags of similar size all shot with a 6.5.

Mr Longshot

I am not a fan of headshots or necks shots so stop Stop trying some crude attempt a charter assassination now you have lost the reasoned argument. The point I was making was that you can kill any animal with any calibre if you hit it in the right place. Right tool for the job was my point.

The deer that I shot ran 200yrds when hit with a 223, it was followed up with a trained dog in line with the deer commission for Scotland’s best practice and with in all aspects of Scottish law.

Yes you are right the Forest Commission Ranger did not like this, he was relatively new to the job from England and I can only assume that he did not know the law in England is different to Scotland.

The stalking syndicate did not loose it’s stalking due to this event or any other, in fact quite contra they were actually offered a extended lease on the block. You have been told this before but of cause that wouldn’t stop you from a bit of **** slinging.

Not that has anything to do with the 6.5 debate.

But rumour has it that you know a thing or two about poaching, had the Police at your door again earlier this year didn’t you because of a boarder indecent and you have had your rifles taken off you before now.

Now you have lost the reasoned debate and can not back your claims with science do not try and drag the posts down to the level of Passion for Stalking.

Tahr

 

[Thar]

You see a 140gr 6.5 has higher sd than a 180gr .30 round.
:

What is that high SD doing for you? you get a higher SD At the price of less frontal area, seeing a 30cal will shoot straight though a animal why do you need more penetration?

They both used .308 and me a 6.5 swede. I beat them at 100yds, at 200 yds and then at 250 yds. What was the difference in drop when we done a trajectory check over 250 yds, you would have been lucky if it was an inch.
:

Seeing the 308 shoots as flat as the 6.5 at stalking ranges but its bullets carries far more energy why use a 6.5. I am glad that you shot so well but it does not prove anything other than you are a better shot that them.

I like proven facts, it is easy to choose the type of data that you want to use. Can you also stop bringing other calibres into the 243, 6.5 debate, if anything it makes you look argumentative and quite arrogant. If you want to start a who hates the 6.5 thread then go ahead but try to keep this thread on track.
:

So bring some proven facts, science to the debate that backs your argument. If you read the whole of the first post and not just the headlines you will see that it specifically mentions 30cal so I am not bringing any other calibres to the debate. Are you sore because the 6.5 does not stack up against the 308? Takes two to argue/debate that’s what makes it interesting. I do not hate the 6.5 I might even get one for small deer.

We know what you think, you use a 270 because you feel a bigger calibre will make up for your poor shooting, and your mate joined you cos he couldn't drop a deer with a 6.5, probably the only man on the planet.

You know nothing about why I have the 270 so do not make assumptions, I have reasons for the 270 that have nothing to do with the debate on here. If you read back though the posts you will see that he was not the only one that had unsatisfactory out comes with the Swede.

Best rgds

Tahr

Go Go the 308.

 

[jingzy]

Also quite interesting that some of the Deer Commission Stalkers moved from the .270 down to the 6.5 swede.

How many reds do they shoot a year.

There you go the pro's have it. They didn't even look at the 30 calibres.



Straight to 6.5.


Enough said.

 

[Davie]

Bambi if you say you can shoot anything with any bullet and say your mate shoots with a .22 hornet and i repeat that statement whats the problem . Now with regards loosing the debate i feel it is your self and a few others that went off track . I am sure it was a debate about the .243 /6.5 .i might be wrong but hey it has been known .
But ill bet your .223 after wounding and causing trouble is well and truly in the bin . Is this the reason you say the smaller calibres are not up to the job. .
EJG Have ever shot large deer with a 6.5 ill bet you haven't because if you had you wouldn't say it is only for fox and small deer . That would then put the .243 in the category of Rabbit Fox rifle. .
It would also mean that the .222 and 223 were of no use for any type of deer. They have just been promoted in England after a long long debate as a small deer legal calibre and have been used in Scotland for years with great success.
Now it seems that you have been on a crusade of sorts about this calibre and have replied negatively to any question about the 6.5 .Now it is totally hypocritical to shoot deer with 223 and then suggest that the 6.5 is not up to the job.

 

[243varmint]

I currently use a 243 - perhaps not the ideal calibre, but the left handed Heym SR20 I have fits well, shoots accurately and I have a lot of confidence in it.

I do have the space for a .30 caibre on my ticket and am thinking of getting something along the lines of 30-06 for African use / red stags etc.

But have just seen a nice left handed rifel in 6.5x55 that has got me thinking. Would you swap your current rifle that you really like for something quite similar - does the 6.5x55 do anything in the UK that you can't do with a .243, and is it really big enough to go up to plains game etc?

Have been away for a couple of days, and have read through this subject again.
I am no expert on this subject, BUT can we leave all the public slanging matches or the slagging off of each other to PM'S
IT will do the site NO good.
Does not give a good impression to new people to the site or people who are just browsing.
PLEASE PLEASE leave personal insults out of PUBLIC debates

Please just give good advice to somebody who has asked a reasonable question.

Thank you

Jonathon

 

[Thar]

Bambi if you say you can shoot anything with any bullet and say your mate shoots with a .22 hornet.

Now it seems that you have been on a crusade of sorts about this calibre and have replied negatively to any question about the 6.5 .Now it is totally hypocritical to shoot deer with 223 and then suggest that the 6.5 is not up to the job.

He was not a mate just somebody I shot with, a friend of a friend, how many more times do you want me to say I do not Condone head shooting.

I see no hypocrisy in shooting 35lbs roe does with a 55gn bullet travelling at 3200fps and not recommending a 129gn bullet travelling at 2700fps for use on red deer weighing 10 times that much, then we come to Plains game that can be even bigger.

I have never said that the 6.5 was not adequate, only that other calibres provide better ballistics for shooting larger game be that big stags or plains game so they would be a better choice.

My view is that it is slightly more powerful that a 243 and less than a 7-08 but it can not compete with a 30cal be that a 308 or 30-06.

Show me ballistic data from any reliable source to dispute that statement.

My position is that I will challenge any BS that is printed about this round, if that up sets people then so be it, some times the truth hurts.

Show me the data to back your view that the 6.5X55 is better than a 30-06, "300WSM" has said that data over 1000s of shot deer shows the 30cal as a better stopper, and scientific data backs this up, 600ftlbs of energy at 200yrds more.

Best rgds

Tahr

 

[300wsm]

some times can't believe how far the deer makes it with only a little of the heart left or no lungs and a damaged heart.

Perhaps you should swap your Military Relic of a Calibre to a 270 that way you would be able to comment that you couldn't belive how little your deer ran

Joking over and I will cut to the chase here is some manufacturers data on the .243 6.5 and others mentioned in this thread.

I was interested to read that the 6.5 is now the choice of professionals as I can only think of two that use that calibre with most of the rest using .243, .25-06, .270 (mainly Scotland) and .308, I was also interested to see that the ballistics of the 308 were being quoted using 180gr bullets, the 308 is on its limit at this weight and most managers I know use either 125gr or 150gr.


Looking at the below tables you will notice that the 6.5 is pretty much at the bottom of the pile along with the 7x57 (another old military calibre) and both only have marginally high ME than the 243 and both have much poorer drop and wind drift.

The 6.5 has and will continue to kill many deer that will never know the difference, just as the .223 killed thousands of Reds in NZ.

This doesn't make them the 'ideal' deer calibre as beauty is often in the eye of the beholder.

The one thing the 6.5x55 is not, is a high performing gravity and wind defying, super calibre that some of it supporters have tried to make it out to be on this thread, if it were the bench rest boys would not be mainly using 6br, 6.5-284 and 300wsm.

Now lets quit the sniping at what people may have or haven't done and get back to sensible informed discussion, without the personal attacks.

And in case we have all forgotten the originally question, Heym no I personally would not sell the 243 for a 6.5x55 especially if you are planning on getting a 30cal if I was going to buy another 'middle' calibre rifle it would be a 25-06 or then again a 6.5-06 or then again a ...............
..........................................................................................................
.....................................................................................

 

[Davie]

Now just as a matter of point so your table puts a

.243 pushing a bullet that small it would brake the law shooting any deer bigger than a roe. 95 grn
The 2506 is using a 115 grn
and the 6.5 is using a 140.

looks like a real comparison to me but hey stats you got to love them and the people that use them to make a point .
Like the chap that used them to find out the best time to shoot deer with out allowing for the massive shift in the dawn a dusk times.

At least bambi used the same size bullet even if it was the wrong calibre.
I WILL KEEP MY HARD HITTING 6.5 AND WILL JUST NEED TO MAKE SURE MY DOG WORKS TO A HIGH STANDARD

 

[splash]

Like the table !

Shows the .260 off a treat !

 

[300wsm]

We dont often agree Splash but the 260 does everything the 6.5 x 55 does only better, faster, with higher ME, in a shorter action and for less powder.

 

[sikamalc]

OK guys thats it

Quite honestly I dont give a flying **** about which calibre outshoots one or another. At the end of the day its the man or women behind the gun. You put the bullet in the right place and the deer falls over.

I think this argument about which calibre does what is about done to death yet again.

We all have our preferences, and we all know what each round can do, lets just leave it at that shall we. Ive seen enough bull**** about different calibres on this thread to sink the Titanic.

Again one or two people have come very near the mark, keep your remarks decent. You know who I am refering to, otherwise you will be banned.

NO MORE WARNINGS!!

 

[300wsm]

Mmmm we cannot debate calibres in the Rifle and calibre forum because it has been done before but we can slag off BASC, BDS, DMQ et al as much as we like on any thread or forum.

 

[smullery]

Hey,

On Thursday I wasn't allowed to shoot my 9.3 x 6.2 in "Great Britain". On Friday I was. Allowed to "purchase / aquire" both expanding (to and from port of embarkation) and non expanding ammo but only allowed to "zero on a range".

Paper targets now appear to go down quicker.

So what was this 7.62 v 9.3 issue about?

Stan

 

[Fester]

You can choose what ever "Deer legal" Calibre you like. put up as many statistics up as you want, argue the toss between each other over what calibre will do better than the other
What the F##K does it matter
If the **** behind the rifle cant shoot then it makes no difference what cal your using, your not gonna get the results you want.
if your relying on larger calibre to take your Deer down then can i suggest you spend some more time punching holes in targets to improve your shooting ability than shooting at Deer
Ive shot alot of deer over the years & used all kinds of calibres, There all up to the job if you use them properly & place the bullet in the rite place
Like they say size does not matter :!: its how you use it at the end of the day
we all have our favourite calibres & feel comfortable with what weve got so thats all that matters.
i dont get involved in the calibre argument because whats good for 1 person aint always good for the other. choose your calibre & practice with it until you know you limitations & know exactly what you can & cant do with it, Once your happy with it then that will become the best calibre in your mind, but just remember it mite not be the best in the mind of others

 

[Thar]

Well I would like to thank those involved for a good and at times lively debate, hope none of you have taken things personal apart from Dave (6.5X55)……………………………………………….. only joking, it would take more than that to get under your skin hey Dave. The next topic we might agree on after all.

While agreeing that the debate is in large a theatrical one because to quote myself:-

One thing I will conceded is that I am of the firm opinion, that the most important calibre in stalking is the calibre of the man behind the butt.

As responsible informed and ethical stalkers we should know how powerful the cartridge we use is in relative to other commonly used cartridges.

Best rgds

Tahr

 

[Jagare]

steyr 243 1000% correct. First sensible post on this topic. Apart from mine

 

[300wsm]

Jagare and Steyr I could not agree more,

Thats why I like my .204 and atlas joint shots