Or wrong if you are in TVP, or other parts of the country, nothing in writing though.
UPDATE: TVP FAC/SGC Renewals
- Thread starter I. Farticus
- Start date
Or wrong if you are in TVP, or other parts of the country, nothing in writing though.
Just received a reply from Hants,
Good morning Mr Mckay
In reply to the below enquiry you are unable to hold expanding ammunition on a section 7 permit.
Kind regards
12784 Pauline Snook
Firearms Administration Officer
Email: pauline.snook@hampshire.pnn.police.uk
Operational Headquarters
Mottisfont Court, Tower Street,
Winchester, Hampshire
SO23 8ND
Good morning Mr Mckay
In reply to the below enquiry you are unable to hold expanding ammunition on a section 7 permit.
Kind regards
12784 Pauline Snook
Firearms Administration Officer
Email: pauline.snook@hampshire.pnn.police.uk
Operational Headquarters
Mottisfont Court, Tower Street,
Winchester, Hampshire
SO23 8ND
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Orion
Well-Known Member
Based on the other info in this thread and Taff's latest post at #42, it might be an idea to get that confirmed in writing/email by the FLD rather than rely on an unverified 'phone call.
So in light of Hampshire confirming that a Section 7 does not allow you to possess expanding ammunition (Post#42 by Taff), and being happy to actually put this in writing. Will you be contacting TVP again to request a further confirmation and perhaps asking if they have read "Guide on Firearms Licensing Law - March 2015", and how their confirmations about Section 5 Expanding Ammunition sit with:
6.17 -Section 7 of the 1968 Act enables a chief officer of police to issue to a person a permit authorising them to possess a firearm or ammunition to which section 1 of the 1968 Act applies, or a shotgun
I. Farticus
Well-Known Member
Here's the fly in the ointment, when I last renewed 2 yrs ago, Hants told me there was no need to issue a section 7 as They were processing my cert ( several weeks later it arrived) so as I did not have a section 7, so could keep expanding ammo.
The whole system is a shower of sxxt , thank god I am now out of it.
The whole system is a shower of sxxt , thank god I am now out of it.
CPS Sentencing Guidelines for illegal possession would be a good enough reason for me, particularly with the minimum sentence being 5 years:
I. Farticus
Well-Known Member
Ok, to give everyone peace of mind, I've emailed them asking the question:
As per my 'phone call yesterday, can you please confirm that I can hold expanding ammo on the Section 7 that will be issued to me shortly?
If not, then is there a way of expediting my renewal as all my ammo is expanding and I can't stalk without it...
With thanks and kind regards
Obviously the answer is not to ask for a section7, it is upto the police to issue them, they know they have not completed your application, there is no legal requirement for you to request one, as long as you have sent your forms back as per there guidance, you have done your part, and any delays is there responsibility.
Redleicester
Well-Known Member
I thought West Mercia had the highest density?
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Orion
Well-Known Member
D&C by some margin, especially FACs - latest available 2014 figures from Office of National Statistics:
Police forces with the highest number of firearm certificates on issue were Devon and Cornwall, Sussex and Thames Valley (10,492, 6,578 and 6,534 respectively)
As in the previous year, police forces with the highest number of shotgun certificates on issue were Devon and Cornwall, Thames Valley and West Mercia (31,539, 28,241 and 27,783 respectively)
AFAIK it's been roughly the same situation for a number of previous years.
Data Tables including figures by Force here: https://www.gov.uk/government/uploa...le/462159/firearm-shotgun-certs-2015-tabs.ods
https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...les-financial-year-ending-march-2014#contents
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Redleicester
Well-Known Member
Fascinating stuff, thank you. I'll look up the numbers now WestMercia are amalgamated with Warks as well.
I. Farticus
Well-Known Member
Well, I would like to extend a heartfelt apology to all those that suggested the contents of my phone conversations wouldn't stand up in court... and I'm glad that I took the decision to get it clarified in writing.
Interesting that there are 2 hues of blue in the email, so some CTRL-C/CTRL-V in the response ie I'm not the first to ask this question, so make it clearer or change the bl**dy rules!!!!!
In my response, I have suggested that they don't just deal with responses in turn, but also prioritise those whose sport will be affected ie S1 ammo holders
SUMMARY: b*ll*cks!
Dear Mr Farthing
Thank you for your email
Your temporary permits allow for the continued possession and use of both your firearms and shot guns.
You will also be able to purchase shot gun cartridges on production of your permit.
However you will not be able to purchase S1 ammunition or hold expanding ammunition as this type of ammunition is classified as prohibited and cannot be held on a temporary permit.
I am sorry for the delay in processing your application and as much as I would like I am unable to give a completion date as all such applications are dealt with in turn.
Yours sincerely
Paul Brightwell | Senior Enquiry Officer | Firearms and Explosive Licensing
Telephone 01865 846566 | Internal 701 3813| Email paul.brightwell@thamesvalley.pnn.police.uk
Address Thames Valley Police Headquarters, Kidlington, Oxon OX5 2NX
Interesting that there are 2 hues of blue in the email, so some CTRL-C/CTRL-V in the response ie I'm not the first to ask this question, so make it clearer or change the bl**dy rules!!!!!
In my response, I have suggested that they don't just deal with responses in turn, but also prioritise those whose sport will be affected ie S1 ammo holders
SUMMARY: b*ll*cks!
Dear Mr Farthing
Thank you for your email
Your temporary permits allow for the continued possession and use of both your firearms and shot guns.
You will also be able to purchase shot gun cartridges on production of your permit.
However you will not be able to purchase S1 ammunition or hold expanding ammunition as this type of ammunition is classified as prohibited and cannot be held on a temporary permit.
I am sorry for the delay in processing your application and as much as I would like I am unable to give a completion date as all such applications are dealt with in turn.
Yours sincerely
Paul Brightwell | Senior Enquiry Officer | Firearms and Explosive Licensing
Telephone 01865 846566 | Internal 701 3813| Email paul.brightwell@thamesvalley.pnn.police.uk
Address Thames Valley Police Headquarters, Kidlington, Oxon OX5 2NX
Not only wont you be able to shoot deer with a Section 7 temporary permit because your ammo will be held illegally but this also means that any boxes and part boxes of expanding bullets will also have to be lodged with a RFD or looked after by a friend what an absolute #### up
Luckily for me if it ever came to this, as a vermin shooter i can carry on shooting using Match bullets.
Ian.
Luckily for me if it ever came to this, as a vermin shooter i can carry on shooting using Match bullets.
Ian.
I. Farticus
Well-Known Member
All ammo will go to RFD until my FAC comes back, but I'm assuming that "hold" will also mean "travel with", so that f*cks up any stalking before my new FAC comes back...
It's a proper clusterf*ck that only affects expanding ammo ie everyone with sporting rifles
Orion
Well-Known Member
All good then.
It would be a revealing exercise for anyone faced with a similar situation, (particularly the Essex FLD fiasco noted above where they state that the won't even look at renewals until the date of expiry!), to; a) get an application lodged say, 6 months before expiry; b) include a letter requesting issue of the renewed FAC/SGC on the expiry date, if not before; c) request notification if the FLD are unable to comply, and detail their proposal to cover the cost of storage of S5 ammo and loss of earnings/amenity due to failure to issue - prior to seeking further legal advice.
The last one might stir things up enough to get your FAC back in good time.
BTW: 'Hold' can be interpreted as 'possess' in this case.
It might be worth asking the question why expanding ammunition, recognised as essential for its humane effect in shooting, is denied to stalkers simply because a process overruns and the consequent delay is not of their making.
The Commission looking at firearms law might well consider that. Ensuring a pest controllers living is not affected by the vagaries of a poorly run process would be a minimum acceptable change, the right to buy and hold expanding ammo could be provided to everyone by simply changing its section 5 status to something sensible, given the safety of gunowners and the lack of demonstrable abuse of current S5 ammo ?
Also, far from benefiting from an improved service nationwide as was suggested was a prerequisite for a fee increase, we have the reverse - a poor system getting worse. No-one can thus be in any doubt that charging the cost of servicing FAC/SGC 'customers' was a load of old tosh and the 'good work and a great result' from BASC was simply hype and rubbish.
The honourable, honest folk (exclusively and we know why), who hold FAC/SGC are put upon again and who cares? One word answers on a post card please.
The Commission looking at firearms law might well consider that. Ensuring a pest controllers living is not affected by the vagaries of a poorly run process would be a minimum acceptable change, the right to buy and hold expanding ammo could be provided to everyone by simply changing its section 5 status to something sensible, given the safety of gunowners and the lack of demonstrable abuse of current S5 ammo ?
Also, far from benefiting from an improved service nationwide as was suggested was a prerequisite for a fee increase, we have the reverse - a poor system getting worse. No-one can thus be in any doubt that charging the cost of servicing FAC/SGC 'customers' was a load of old tosh and the 'good work and a great result' from BASC was simply hype and rubbish.
The honourable, honest folk (exclusively and we know why), who hold FAC/SGC are put upon again and who cares? One word answers on a post card please.
As I have said,"don,t ask for a section 7" if you have sent your renewal off in plenty of time, and followed there guidelines , then it is the police responcibility to issue it not your to ask for it, as your license is being processed it means you still have a license, if the police were going to revoke your license you would have heard prior to renewal, it's about time BASC etc took this to court under the "european rights act, " infringement of personnel liberties" you are carrying out a completely legal activity and have complied with all aspects of European and national law.
Not being a lawyer I have been able to present a viable case so why can,t they.
Not being a lawyer I have been able to present a viable case so why can,t they.
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