Lost deer
- Thread starter bijssg
- Start date
Well done for writing up the bad experience. 10x harder to write these up than the ones that went to plan. I find you get these cycles. Low point with an error. Down the range. Re-zero. Start shooting again. Success. Success. etc. then ... too much confidence cock-up and re-start the cycle.
A lesson learnt I'd say! There is sufficient margins for error with a H/L shot without increasing the risk of injury by taking neck/head shots! Enough animals pick themselves-up/run away after a perfectly good H/L shot, the difference being, there is usually a good trail to follow-up on, ideally with a dog. I have hunted for 50 yrs, both here and in Africa and NEVER take neck/head shots. I have no doubt in my abilities as a hunter to be able to take some H/N shots, just don't feel it necessary to take that risk. That H/N area is very tiny, and very mobile, it requires an animal to move only slightly at the moment you shoot and wounding is the most likely outcome.
I understand perfectly the concept of less meat damage with H/N shot deer. In addition, some game dealers would rather have them this way, I personally would rather tolerate a little meat damage knowing that most of my animals are not 'going far' after being shot, and trade with a game dealer who understands this.
Whilst on a game-management course some years ago, the professional-stalker (in a deer-park situation) shot the jaws off two fallow at 60-80 yards! This from a perfect rest on a vehicle.........you can only imagine the 'follow-ups'
These thoughts are only my personal opinion, not a judgement on others who take H/N shots.......I simply do not see why take the extra risks? Would be interesting to hear your thoughts.......AND I do hope you find your deer, though I am inclined to agree with others, that you 'creased' the neck and it would have run a LONG way. There are no flies around to 'blow' the wound so in all probability ought to recover.
I understand perfectly the concept of less meat damage with H/N shot deer. In addition, some game dealers would rather have them this way, I personally would rather tolerate a little meat damage knowing that most of my animals are not 'going far' after being shot, and trade with a game dealer who understands this.
Whilst on a game-management course some years ago, the professional-stalker (in a deer-park situation) shot the jaws off two fallow at 60-80 yards! This from a perfect rest on a vehicle.........you can only imagine the 'follow-ups'
These thoughts are only my personal opinion, not a judgement on others who take H/N shots.......I simply do not see why take the extra risks? Would be interesting to hear your thoughts.......AND I do hope you find your deer, though I am inclined to agree with others, that you 'creased' the neck and it would have run a LONG way. There are no flies around to 'blow' the wound so in all probability ought to recover.
I can understand people not wanting to take H/N shots for the reasons mentioned. However some people including myself are employed to achieve a cull. If I was to decide never to take a H/N shot then I probably would struggle to get the cull and my cost/deer would be more. I know animal welfare is very important but when I take a H/N shot there are usually no other option other than to come out of the forest empty handed.
A couple of weeks ago I thought I had cocked up with a head shot doe. A doe was backside on with its head looking over its shoulder at me. It wasnt far away, I had a good rest and so shot at the head. I went over with the dog and she promptly found a doe. When I looked the head was untouched but there was a nasty hole in its backside. The thoughts that ran through my head at that time was strange, how could I be so far off with the shot, it must have been at least 8". However when I started to drag the doe back I stumbled across another one which had obviously been the one I shot at. I would not have known the one with the extra hole in its backside was there at all unless the dog had found it first
A couple of weeks ago I thought I had cocked up with a head shot doe. A doe was backside on with its head looking over its shoulder at me. It wasnt far away, I had a good rest and so shot at the head. I went over with the dog and she promptly found a doe. When I looked the head was untouched but there was a nasty hole in its backside. The thoughts that ran through my head at that time was strange, how could I be so far off with the shot, it must have been at least 8". However when I started to drag the doe back I stumbled across another one which had obviously been the one I shot at. I would not have known the one with the extra hole in its backside was there at all unless the dog had found it first
To everyone that's posted in one way or the other ii have valued all, firstly I did contact and had today a tracking dog and a close friend now I will proceed with how today went....
Well I got up early to go to the park with some treats for the deer some stock feed spuds and a farm shops trimmings it was another blowy and wet day as I left the park heading for the ground a feeling of the unknown and what was the outcome going to be. I met my mentor and his friend with the dog but I insisted I wanted to stalk the one wood first instead of tracking immediately. I was adamant that if I saw the same herd I would know the deer I shot at I know the ground and the deer (fallow) very well as I'm on the ground a lot.
as I stalked into the wood i saw a very dark deer I glassed across and saw a number of menil and commons of both sexes I lay down for a few minutes and more fallow came out of the thick and to my amazement two menilistic does but the one larger one was more of a chocolate coloured bottom half ever so slightly lighter she was the bigger wasn't sure at this point as the smaller doe that I shot at was still hidden slightly behind trees after another few minutes I could see all the black deer both male and female and was looking for a wound on the neck I couldn't see a thing I also couldn't see a thing wrong with the deer 99% sure it was the same one I had her in my scope put the cross hairs on the engine room and pretended to fire, almost instantly the wind changed 14 fallow ran the opposite way I didn't want to shoot her not because I wasn't confident I just didn't want to today
It coudnt of been a better outcome some of you may think this is absolute bull Its gospel,
anyway we called for the dog I had marked the shot site and my position and the dog started and followed the same route as I thought the deer had gone after an hour and a half we gave up I was more than happy the black one from earlier is alive and well much to my amazement she will be shot at some point but not by me if I find a wound in the neck I'll write what i find
chuffed to bits with the outcome today
Well the outcome of this weekend has made me rethink my shot place and there will be no more side on neck shots for me from this day forward thanks again to you all speak soon
bij
Well I got up early to go to the park with some treats for the deer some stock feed spuds and a farm shops trimmings it was another blowy and wet day as I left the park heading for the ground a feeling of the unknown and what was the outcome going to be. I met my mentor and his friend with the dog but I insisted I wanted to stalk the one wood first instead of tracking immediately. I was adamant that if I saw the same herd I would know the deer I shot at I know the ground and the deer (fallow) very well as I'm on the ground a lot.
as I stalked into the wood i saw a very dark deer I glassed across and saw a number of menil and commons of both sexes I lay down for a few minutes and more fallow came out of the thick and to my amazement two menilistic does but the one larger one was more of a chocolate coloured bottom half ever so slightly lighter she was the bigger wasn't sure at this point as the smaller doe that I shot at was still hidden slightly behind trees after another few minutes I could see all the black deer both male and female and was looking for a wound on the neck I couldn't see a thing I also couldn't see a thing wrong with the deer 99% sure it was the same one I had her in my scope put the cross hairs on the engine room and pretended to fire, almost instantly the wind changed 14 fallow ran the opposite way I didn't want to shoot her not because I wasn't confident I just didn't want to today
It coudnt of been a better outcome some of you may think this is absolute bull Its gospel,
anyway we called for the dog I had marked the shot site and my position and the dog started and followed the same route as I thought the deer had gone after an hour and a half we gave up I was more than happy the black one from earlier is alive and well much to my amazement she will be shot at some point but not by me if I find a wound in the neck I'll write what i find
chuffed to bits with the outcome today
Well the outcome of this weekend has made me rethink my shot place and there will be no more side on neck shots for me from this day forward thanks again to you all speak soon
bij
Heym SR20
Well-Known Member
**** happens and we all occasionally loose animals. I have lost red calf in thick forestry, and hinds on the open hill. They have run after being shot into dead ground and never to be seen again - I think they fell into deep gutters. Lost a big fox last weekend. Solidly hit twice and followed thick blood trail to the edge of my permission, and local politics mean not able to follow further.
Head / neck shots are very good for lack of meat damage. But if you are going to regularly use this shot you need to use a rapidly expanding bullet as you need to cause massive damage to ensure that the spinal column and major arteries are severed even with a shot slightly off centre. A ballistic tip varmint type bullet makes a real mess of a head with back of head shot.
But, and it's a very big but, such bullets are not at all good for body shots, and that's the shot you will take if you have to follow up.
I suppose the ideal would be to find two loads, one with a rapidly expanding bullet, the other with a normal well constructed bullet that shoot to the same point of impact. Mag is loaded with the normal bullets, rapidly expanding in the chamber - the same way as on big game - soft point for the first shot, solids for follow ups.
Head / neck shots are very good for lack of meat damage. But if you are going to regularly use this shot you need to use a rapidly expanding bullet as you need to cause massive damage to ensure that the spinal column and major arteries are severed even with a shot slightly off centre. A ballistic tip varmint type bullet makes a real mess of a head with back of head shot.
But, and it's a very big but, such bullets are not at all good for body shots, and that's the shot you will take if you have to follow up.
I suppose the ideal would be to find two loads, one with a rapidly expanding bullet, the other with a normal well constructed bullet that shoot to the same point of impact. Mag is loaded with the normal bullets, rapidly expanding in the chamber - the same way as on big game - soft point for the first shot, solids for follow ups.
jamross65
Well-Known Member
I may be wrong, but from what I've read there has been no blood, hair, bone or anything else found following the shot? Yet the beast has definitely ben hit. Well can someone tell me how they know it's been hit in the neck with no physical evidence to support that? If it's been hit there is evidence there, you've just not found it yet, or the dog thats been used hasn't. I agree that deer creased in the neck will drop and walk off once they get up. But they can fall and get up and walk off when hit in other areas too.
bewsher500
Well-Known Member
Personally i always aim for high neck not low neck.
smaller target yes, more critical components in less meat.
If you are not confident or hitting a 2" circle at the range and conditions then high or low neck makes no odds.
I don't necessarily agree with the frangible bullet requirement, I have hit big red stags in the portion of the neck 6" from the atlas with standard soft points and missed the bones and still had death
If the bullet is carrying and enough energy and you hit it close enough to the spine (ideally through it obviously) you will incapacitate the animal.
Whether it is brain dead when you get to it or not depends on lots of things
smaller target yes, more critical components in less meat.
If you are not confident or hitting a 2" circle at the range and conditions then high or low neck makes no odds.
I don't necessarily agree with the frangible bullet requirement, I have hit big red stags in the portion of the neck 6" from the atlas with standard soft points and missed the bones and still had death
If the bullet is carrying and enough energy and you hit it close enough to the spine (ideally through it obviously) you will incapacitate the animal.
Whether it is brain dead when you get to it or not depends on lots of things
Well jam rose I am so sorry I didn't find hard evidence for you even tho it was lashing with rain not to mention how I was functioning mentally after the beast ran, It dropped to the shot Thats the evidence, unless deer just fall down to a bang I might be wrong your the expert. Always one ey,
Heym SR20
Well-Known Member
Agree and disagree - the neck on a big red stag has more than enough thickness / body / solidness (struggling for the correct word) to cause enough expansion and transmission of energy to cause enough damage to kill.
On a smaller deer a bullet going through the neck muscle at the bottom of the neck could easily not expand very much, there are no major blood vessels there and it will be a bullet size hole on the way in and not much bigger on the way out. After the initial stunning blow which will drop the deer there won't have been much damage. It will be difficult, unless you go exactly to the spot where it dropped to find much in the way of hair or blood - there would not be much, if any, in the first place.
FrenchieBoy
Well-Known Member
Perfect ending bij!
In my opinion you did everything right and you have no criticisms to answer to!
In my opinion you did everything right and you have no criticisms to answer to!
Means a lot nice comments like that bud.
Monkey Spanker
Well-Known Member
I'm slightly confused as to why you didn't shoot it again given the chance? 
The fact that it looked fine doesn't negate the fact that it probably has a very sore neck and could still die of infection. If it was on the cull plan the day before, then why not shoot it?
Also, it would have given you piece of mind that you had finished the job you started, and there could be no further welfare issues. You should really go back and target that animal if you have the opportunity.
MS
The fact that it looked fine doesn't negate the fact that it probably has a very sore neck and could still die of infection. If it was on the cull plan the day before, then why not shoot it?
Also, it would have given you piece of mind that you had finished the job you started, and there could be no further welfare issues. You should really go back and target that animal if you have the opportunity.
MS
Ranger22
Well-Known Member
I'm slightly confused as to why you didn't shoot it again given the chance?
The fact that it looked fine doesn't negate the fact that it probably has a very sore neck and could still die of infection. If it was on the cull plan the day before, then why not shoot it?
Also, it would have given you piece of mind that you had finished the job you started, and there could be no further welfare issues. You should really go back and target that animal if you have the opportunity.
MS
You beat me to it.
jamross65
Well-Known Member
Listen, if you go on a forum and expose something you've done, then expect the odd constructive criticism as well as the slaps on the back. You mentioned you couldn't find anything. If you've hit it there is evidence. If your dog isn't onto the task then get one to look that is. Stop taking it so personally and consider the welfare of the animal that you've clearly hit. Like MS and Ranger I too am at a loss as to why you didn't shoot the beast you were 99% certain was the one you 'hit' the previous day! If it transpired it wasn't so what. It's an extra beast lifted. A beast falling to the shot is only a tiny part of the story after you've shot it. Not every gut shot beast arches it's back, not every heart shot skips up and charges forward. Those indications can sometimes mislead. I've had it myself. What cannot be overlooked is the importance of the type of blood, hair, bone or other matter found at the **** site or along the track. That's what will tell you the most about where it's hit and whether it's likely to suffer. Meantime, the beast you hit is still wandering about and you've no idea for certain where it was hit. I'm not an expert, but I've stalked long enough to know I can still learn from experiences. You should do the same...
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I'm slightly confused as to why you didn't shoot it again given the chance?
The fact that it looked fine doesn't negate the fact that it probably has a very sore neck and could still die of infection. If it was on the cull plan the day before, then why not shoot it?
Also, it would have given you piece of mind that you had finished the job you started, and there could be no further welfare issues. You should really go back and target that animal if you have the opportunity.
MS
There isn't a cull plan a such I make my own mind up what's shot and is always the lesser beast,
No reason to be honest mate I was just making sure I saw both black does and that they were both behaving normally which they were any sign of not so the rifle was ready, I could of shot her yes but i didn't think it was nessasary when she was grazing away fine. Harder men probably would but point taken on board definitely and thank you.
jamross65
Well-Known Member
no he's not, and yes he has... Call out a trained tracking dog. If it doesn't find it, then you've done everything you can, on top of what MS suggests in getting back out until you find it again. Except this time shoot it as its already got a bullet wound...
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