RSPB news.

[VSS]

Shot hen harrier found on North Yorkshire grouse moor

By Mark Thomas, Head of Investigations, RSPB. Another satellite-tagged hen harrier, found dead on a grouse moor in North Yorkshire, has been confirmed as shot

community.rspb.org.uk

 

[reloader54]

whether engineered for negative reaction to gamekeepers/ shooters /guns/ in any form, or indeed another case of "raptor persecution" by persons unknown,, it will be a very short time indeed before public opinion will not listen to anyone other than anti shooting factions. a sad day awaits I fear.

 

[Highlandsjohn]

As I was saying on the other post about competing with antis propaganda..

 

[reloader54]

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As I was saying on the other post about competing with antis propaganda..

while I would agree with you 100% on that, it should be considered there's a very good reason the rspb have stayed away from the domestic cat/songbird predation as much as possible,,, one word,, "donations" how many old ladies of wealth [or any cat owners]would continue to donate to an organisation than condemned poor old "tiddles"?

 

[novice]

One thing I've picked up on recently with respect to the last 2 tagged harriers that have been found is the fact that their tags have started working again after a period of silence. The antis in the past have stringently denied that this can happen, but have been happy to do an about turn now that it fits their own agenda.

I feel there is a lot of tricks at play by both sides on this one. Fact remains the presence of shot in a carcass is difficult to refute, assuming images etc are genuine.

Novice

 

[VSS]

whether engineered for negative reaction to gamekeepers/ shooters /guns/ in any form, or indeed another case of "raptor persecution" by persons unknown,, it will be a very short time indeed before public opinion will not listen to anyone other than anti shooting factions. a sad day awaits I fear.

People will hear what they want to hear. Anti shooting orgs have got a headstart on us, I'm afraid, and most folk will believe the first accusation they hear rather than the counter argument that follows, regardless of which is correct.
(And it is indeed a sad thing that the rspb's accusation that the bird was shoot by a grouse moor keeper could well be correct).

Unfortunately, as shooters, we're so busy defending ourselves from allegations such as this, and trying to distance ourselves from the perpetrators, that we don't really find time to circulate unrelated positive messages about what we do in the the countryside.

 

[Uncle Norm]

Whoever shot that bird is a complete fool and a disgrace to the shooting sports. I hope the perpetrator is convicted and goes to jail.

I help with Hen Harrier counts through the winter. We had several Hen Harriers roosting with us for some time. Last winter and the winter before not one was seen.
I don't know why.
This at a time when the roosting Marsh Harrier numbers are doing well.

 

[reloader54]

It's a sad fact so much of the world revolves around vast profits, and much will be destroyed forever in pursuit of wealth,I can honestly say I have all my life not chased the money, but instead sought to lessen my impact on this globe I reside on, I'm confident my adverse affect, if any at all, is substantially less than those who wish to curtail my lifestyle. and confident I would embarrass more than a few so called "eco warriors".

 

[VSS]

One thing I've picked up on recently with respect to the last 2 tagged harriers that have been found is the fact that their tags have started working again after a period of silence. The antis in the past have stringently denied that this can happen, but have been happy to do an about turn now that it fits their own agenda.

I feel there is a lot of tricks at play by both sides on this one. Fact remains the presence of shot in a carcass is difficult to refute, assuming images etc are genuine.

Novice

Conspiracy theory suggests it was found dead from natural causes, tag turned off until required, carcass kept in storage waiting an opportune moment, then peppered with shot, planted in remote location, and tag restarted.
Sounds like a great story for us to hug and comfort ourselves with, but in truth the likelihood is that it was shot by some idiot who didn't even know what it was.

 

[zambezi]

Whoever shot that bird is a complete fool and a disgrace to the shooting sports. I hope the perpetrator is convicted and goes to jail.

+1

 

[Highlandsjohn]

I don't get too excited about stuff like this.
They have lied so many times in the past for their own propaganda..

 

[VSS]

I don't get too excited about stuff like this.
They have lied so many times in the past for their own propaganda..

Indeed, but until that is proven and publicised widely, we tack the flack. It's not us that have to believe they've lied - it's everyone else.

 

[landkeeper]

Its also possible that the shot was ingested whilst eating carrion rather than the bird actually been shot , if the body is badly decomposed then it would be nigh on impossible to tell if the shot was in the digestive tract or intermuscullar unless of course its in a wing or leg .

 

[VSS]

Its also possible that the shot was ingested whilst eating carrion rather than the bird actually been shot , if the body is badly decomposed then it would be nigh on impossible to tell if the shot was in the digestive tract or intermuscullar unless of course its in a wing or leg .

Fair point, and unless someone who's genuinely unbiased either way carries out an examination of the xrays I guess we'll never know.

 

[landkeeper]

Fair point, and unless someone who's genuinely unbiased either way carries out an examination of the xrays I guess we'll never know.

I notice the police stated 2 pieces of shot but onlt recovered one that seems strange

 

[reloader54]

Its also possible that the shot was ingested whilst eating carrion rather than the bird actually been shot , if the body is badly decomposed then it would be nigh on impossible to tell if the shot was in the digestive tract or intermuscullar unless of course its in a wing or leg .

that is a very valid point. the police confirmed shot was present with the carcass but not whether it was the cause of death.

 

[reloader54]

Fair point, and unless someone who's genuinely unbiased either way carries out an examination of the xrays I guess we'll never know.

and the results would have to be at the very least made public so as not to be tainted by "omission" of certain facts.
I would feel happier with a representative from say,,, the ngo present.

 

[VSS]

And of course, the headline could easily be changed to read "poisoned by ingested shot". Either way we're on the back foot.

 

[landkeeper]

Its sensationalist reporting , all birds eat grit to help aid digestion therefore a bird that lives on carrion has lots of opportunities to pick up a stray pellet or two

 

[landkeeper]

I remember x rays of lead poisoned swans and other waterfowl in the 70s and early 80s clearly showing arsley bombs and coffin leads as well as split shot it took quite a lot of lead to affect a bird , i suspect 2 pellets in a harrier would not have caused fatal lead toxicity
I would much rather be on the back foot with lead poisoning than some dickhead shooting bops tbh the stupidity of some boil my blood tbh
But anythings possible my buddies who keep bops wont feed them shot quarry for that reason