Thoughts on Barnes TTSX BT Bullet Heads
- Thread starter Custard
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Wild Boar go down pretty hard using Mono's .. .300 Win Mag @ 165 Grain bullet weight.
Out of interest, Do you know the hardness of copper compared to brass as my understanding is that the copper is softer.I tend to call things by their real names, it causes less confusion that way.
Brass is lighter than lead by 32.161% consequently a 130gr lead bullet will be shorter than a brass bullet.
Depending upon the twist in the rifling of your barrel, the longer bullet may not stabilise.
Lead has a hardness of 1.5 on the Mohs scale and Brass is 3. To overcome this metals resistance to 'spreading' the tipped TSX bullet also has an engineered cavity that relieves the nose into 4 sections to aid (what I call) the 'Mushroom effect'
As has been said, you'd be better dropping to 110gr. In answer to your quest (velocity) No, a 130gr brass bullet will exit the barrel at the same velocity as a 130gr lead bullet.
A lighter (ie 110gr) bullet will exit faster.
Faster is better with a harder material as the terminal energy will defeat it's resistance to mushroom.
Here's a great source of info .. linky
Having used Barnes bullets for many years I will continue to do so as nothing else I have used gives such good results. However (and this is in my opinion important) I have seen marked differences between the different bullet weights in the same calibre. I found that the 140g 7mm RM bullets killed as well but no better than the 150g 308 soft point. OK but not spectacular. Dropping bullet weight to 120g gives almost uniform bang flop every time. Similarly in the 308 the 150g works quite well but the 130g gives bang flops almost every time. My experiences seem to match other long time Barnes users which is interesting.
@srvet
Copper is between 2.5 and 3 (on the MoHs scale) so pure copper is slightly softer than Brass (which as an alloy comes in different flavours) and falls between 3 and 3.5. Brass is primarily Copper and Zinc with (occasionally) a small amount of lead.
Lead and Zinc are near the bottom of the scale @ 1.5 (Lead) and 2.5 for Zinc).
Brass and Copper fall into the same scale place (3) but it depends on the composition of Brass. I also believe that Copper bullets are in fact a composition of Copper and Zinc (ie Brass) but more Copper and Less Zinc than "Brass" (if you see what I mean).
I do know that Brass doesn't machine very well (it tears) without the inclusion of Lead so I think that the current stock of machined 'Lead-free' bullets possibly have an inclusion of Tin, which is why (with the addition of the machining process) they are expensive.
MoHs Scale linky
Wiki Brass linky
Copper-v-lead linky
What this all means is that you need to punch a bit harder to get the non-lead bullet to expand (because it's slightly harder), also the density means that the non-lead projectile is bigger (longer in the case of a similar caliber bullet) than it's copper jacketed lead brother. So to get a similar performance you need a lighter bullet which will (because of physics) be able to travel faster out of the barrel and therefore have more terminal energy to expand in the same fashion. There maybe some math out there that defines the increase in speed/energy needed but I don't know it. As everyone has said - go lead free, go lighter/faster.
Copper is between 2.5 and 3 (on the MoHs scale) so pure copper is slightly softer than Brass (which as an alloy comes in different flavours) and falls between 3 and 3.5. Brass is primarily Copper and Zinc with (occasionally) a small amount of lead.
Lead and Zinc are near the bottom of the scale @ 1.5 (Lead) and 2.5 for Zinc).
Brass and Copper fall into the same scale place (3) but it depends on the composition of Brass. I also believe that Copper bullets are in fact a composition of Copper and Zinc (ie Brass) but more Copper and Less Zinc than "Brass" (if you see what I mean).
I do know that Brass doesn't machine very well (it tears) without the inclusion of Lead so I think that the current stock of machined 'Lead-free' bullets possibly have an inclusion of Tin, which is why (with the addition of the machining process) they are expensive.
MoHs Scale linky
Wiki Brass linky
Copper-v-lead linky
What this all means is that you need to punch a bit harder to get the non-lead bullet to expand (because it's slightly harder), also the density means that the non-lead projectile is bigger (longer in the case of a similar caliber bullet) than it's copper jacketed lead brother. So to get a similar performance you need a lighter bullet which will (because of physics) be able to travel faster out of the barrel and therefore have more terminal energy to expand in the same fashion. There maybe some math out there that defines the increase in speed/energy needed but I don't know it. As everyone has said - go lead free, go lighter/faster.
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Hi there,
By the sounds of it you have bought some bullets to in order to load your own cartridges.
Maybe share some proposed load components and data with us, could be useful.
Nothing wrong with this bullet choice, as others mentioned they need to be used with the consideration that monolithic copper bullets do not expand as readily, are less dense and hence longer.
SAKO use Barnes TTSX for all their non-toxic loadings (Powerhead II I think). Might recommend that you take a look at those as well.
A lot of people load the .270 with a large rifle magnum primer as well, something to think about.
I've used TSX and TTSX in my 6.5x55 and I've never lost a deer to them. I've shot more than a few deer too. Long range I'm not so sure, most of my shots are sub 100m because I really enjoy the stalk. Maybe velocity drop at longer ranges is what causes other folk to grumble about poor performance? Apparently the LRX opens up at lower velocities as it's designed to shoot out to longer ranges. Could be worth a punt at those? The .270 is hardly slow though, you'd think it would do well with the 130's?
deerwarden
Well-Known Member
deerwarden
Well-Known Member
I've been using them for some time in my 270 and have a Barnes reloading manual somewhere that advises on how to get the best out of them. Length of jump to the lands etc. Been to Africa 6 times now and used my 270 and 7x57 for plains game using Barnes TTSX, the P.H.s were more than happy with the Barnes bullets performance in my 270, and the low meat damage to the carcass as well. Used Barnes TTSX in Scotland as well, mostly on the hinds and my F.C. mates were happy with the low carcass damage. Barnes reloading data advises pushing the bullets fast, I'm happy using them, but want to see beyond the animal, haven't had any issues, but the bullets do suffer very little damage, and on exit, I want a backdrop. One day lead will be banned, so monolithic type bullets will be the replacement. deerwarden
The Barnes TTSX are long, so my loads were all compressed, which was a nuisance.
I'll add my vote to the pencil effect. Only a few animals have escaped after being hit with my 7mm08 but just by coincidence two of them were with the TTSX.
It sounds as if they can perform OK in high velocity cartridges, under 200m.
I'll add my vote to the pencil effect. Only a few animals have escaped after being hit with my 7mm08 but just by coincidence two of them were with the TTSX.
It sounds as if they can perform OK in high velocity cartridges, under 200m.
Treedave
Well-Known Member
what weight TTSX did you use in the 7-08? I’m working on loads for the same calibre.
I’m not surprised, I used the 140g TSX in my 7RM and to be fair they worked ok but I saw a marked improvement in speed of incapacitation when I switched to the 120g TTSX. The difference in the 7/08 would probably be even more marked!
shbangsteve
Well-Known Member
What powder and what sort of velocities are you getting ?
Your understanding is correct...but with caveats...MoHs scale of scratch ability/resistance is not the best or most appropriate in this context.
The relative pressure required to deform the metal (expand the bullet) depends on both its alloy and the state of hardness. Thus the Yield points of brass and copper overlap...an annealed brass (Cartridge Brass 70%copper 30%zinc, Muntz Metal/Standard Brass 60%Cu 40% Zn , Gilding Metal 80%-95%cCu 5-20%Zn) all have a yield point well below that of work hardened Copper. But annealed copper is softer than any annealed brass. When forming/working both metals you are acutely aware of the hardness difference, and the speed with which they change state and work harden.
Lead anneals at room temperature so is basically always in its softest state.
Alan
Reloader 19 and around 2950. Quite mild for homeloads but very accurate
mark g
Well-Known Member
"Tipped TSX bullet" is it not the TTSX that is tipped?I tend to call things by their real names, it causes less confusion that way.
Brass is lighter than lead by 32.161% consequently a 130gr lead bullet will be shorter than a brass bullet.
Depending upon the twist in the rifling of your barrel, the longer bullet may not stabilise.
Lead has a hardness of 1.5 on the Mohs scale and Brass is 3. To overcome this metals resistance to 'spreading' the tipped TSX bullet also has an engineered cavity that relieves the nose into 4 sections to aid (what I call) the 'Mushroom effect'
As has been said, you'd be better dropping to 110gr. In answer to your quest (velocity) No, a 130gr brass bullet will exit the barrel at the same velocity as a 130gr lead bullet.
A lighter (ie 110gr) bullet will exit faster.
Faster is better with a harder material as the terminal energy will defeat it's resistance to mushroom.
Here's a great source of info .. linky
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