FOX Bullets expansion.
- Thread starter hammo
- Start date
reloader54
Well-Known Member
excellent, I meant to ask the bullet weight too, and how does it,[if at all] differ from your lead type.
the nearest weight to the bullet you already use.
I’ve shot non toxic bullets for over 10 years and never had to drop a weight.
in my opinion all this drop a weight to get better expansion is tosh!
Killed 100’s of deer with Barnes bullets in 6.5 and 270 doing no more than 2850-2900 FPS
Interestingly, 51gr is the charge weight I have been loading the 170gr SST's at; and the POI is pretty much exactly the same too.
Pleased. I will try and get a couple over my crono tomorrow.
Was getting 2700fps with the SST's expecting very similar figure with the Fox.
They work!I'm looking at non lead options as well. Looking through the thread, a few people are asking about longer range/lower speed performance. Recently looking at Barnes website, I've noticed a long range non lead option, anyone tried it?
LRX
www.barnesbullets.com
all Barnes bullets work.
Sadly no 8mm version.
Ade8mm
Well-Known Member
What were you running prior.? I have an 8 X 60 and use 175 grn Sierra Pro-hunters. Interesting to see the the non lead stuff and how it performs. Not too worried about velocity,, my issue is regulation with an old double rifle and having eventually found a load that works dread the faff of going through it all again.
Heym SR20
Well-Known Member
I use the 130g factory ammo. I have used remington or federal 140gn in the past. No diffference in effect on animal. Cleaner carcass.
I was using 170gr SST's. Great terminal effect and grouped really well.
Pretty sure they do/did 160/180 TTSX in 8mm.
Think it was a ref to the LRX version
There is a requirement to ensure that monolithics are retaining velocity as the material used is harder than lead and needs that additional imparted energy to expand 'in a similar fashion'.
Reducing the weight will achieve higher velocity (physics) but if your current rifle/load can produce a good MV then you are right, you don't need to drop a weight from your normal load.
The issue, which is problematic, is that monolithic bullets are longer than their lead counterparts of the same weight and this can lead to instability. If you are at the maximum with your normal, lead, bullet, to overcome this you will need to drop a weight which also reduces the length.
In this case velocity is not the consideration.
Final test session today. 2750fps over the crono giving 2677fpe.
I did manage to capture one bullet, predictably expanded greatly and has shed some pieces.
All good there then.
Next I moved out to a measured 200m, having placed two 25kg sacks of damp builders sand against a banked backstop.
Three shots off my sticks, and very happy with that tidy group 200m off sticks, I call that not bad. Just aimed centre of mass.
Recovered all three bullets, two of which have shed petals, which going by the two petals I recovered look quite uniform.
All three bullets were recovered from the rear of the first sack, however the front of the second sack was ruptured and I expected to find the bullets in that second sack. It seems significant that all three stopped around the same depth into the sacks, shedding the petals seems not to result in a massive increase in penetration.
I am more than happy with accuracy and terminal effect/expansion. The purpose of this post was to publicise my findings, good or bad. I went out last night and dropped two Fox, both at around 100m. Predictably no issues at all. I managed to sell my stockpile of SST's last night, and will be exclusively using the Fox bullets going forward.
I hope my ramblings have given some clarity to those wanting unbiased results. 2 bags of builders sand cost just £3.75, would love to try clay or ballistic wax but I imagine the latter pricey.
Interested in others thoughts. I personally fear that BASC et al have thrown open the barn doors to a 'voluntary ban' on most lead ammo. I was once a qualified heli~abseiler, and jump before your pushed is always sound advice.
I did manage to capture one bullet, predictably expanded greatly and has shed some pieces.
All good there then.
Next I moved out to a measured 200m, having placed two 25kg sacks of damp builders sand against a banked backstop.
Three shots off my sticks, and very happy with that tidy group 200m off sticks, I call that not bad. Just aimed centre of mass.
Recovered all three bullets, two of which have shed petals, which going by the two petals I recovered look quite uniform.
All three bullets were recovered from the rear of the first sack, however the front of the second sack was ruptured and I expected to find the bullets in that second sack. It seems significant that all three stopped around the same depth into the sacks, shedding the petals seems not to result in a massive increase in penetration.
I am more than happy with accuracy and terminal effect/expansion. The purpose of this post was to publicise my findings, good or bad. I went out last night and dropped two Fox, both at around 100m. Predictably no issues at all. I managed to sell my stockpile of SST's last night, and will be exclusively using the Fox bullets going forward.
I hope my ramblings have given some clarity to those wanting unbiased results. 2 bags of builders sand cost just £3.75, would love to try clay or ballistic wax but I imagine the latter pricey.
Interested in others thoughts. I personally fear that BASC et al have thrown open the barn doors to a 'voluntary ban' on most lead ammo. I was once a qualified heli~abseiler, and jump before your pushed is always sound advice.
Indeed they do, could not find any in stock UK. No LRX currently produced though.
Final test session today. 2750fps over the crono giving 2677fpe.
I did manage to capture one bullet, predictably expanded greatly and has shed some pieces.
All good there then.
Next I moved out to a measured 200m, having placed two 25kg sacks of damp builders sand against a banked backstop.
Three shots off my sticks, and very happy with that tidy group 200m off sticks, I call that not bad. Just aimed centre of mass.
Recovered all three bullets, two of which have shed petals, which going by the two petals I recovered look quite uniform.
All three bullets were recovered from the rear of the first sack, however the front of the second sack was ruptured and I expected to find the bullets in that second sack. It seems significant that all three stopped around the same depth into the sacks, shedding the petals seems not to result in a massive increase in penetration.
I am more than happy with accuracy and terminal effect/expansion. The purpose of this post was to publicise my findings, good or bad. I went out last night and dropped two Fox, both at around 100m. Predictably no issues at all. I managed to sell my stockpile of SST's last night, and will be exclusively using the Fox bullets going forward.
I hope my ramblings have given some clarity to those wanting unbiased results. 2 bags of builders sand cost just £3.75, would love to try clay or ballistic wax but I imagine the latter pricey.
Interested in others thoughts. I personally fear that BASC et al have thrown open the barn doors to a 'voluntary ban' on most lead ammo. I was once a qualified heli~abseiler, and jump before your pushed is always sound advice.
I use 5 liter Aspen cans filled with water for expansion testing, usually at 100m. Can also be substituted for screen wash containers.
nosler93
Member
you say that you believe that they're producing faster and more emphatic death at lower velocities, are you able to explain why this may be the case or would this require more investigation
Been using the Fox 130s in my 7x57 for quite some time. I hand load to about 2750 muzzle velocity. The improvement in carcass quality has been significant. We've had one anomaly in the last 40-odd roe shot. Shot a buck in heavy cover at about 65yds - all I could see was the beast's neck and head - a fairly steep downhill shot. Took the shot, aiming for top of the neck, and the beast dropped on the spot. The dog found the animal with no problem, but the buck had a good size wound on the top of one haunch, as well as the obvious disjointed neck! I blamed the dog as she has a habit of ragging on the carcass. However, later on when we prepped the carcass in the larder, it was obvious that the bullet had hit the axis joint which radically altered the direction of travel (by about 30 degs) and it then cut a furrow along the top of the haunch. Sorry, dog....
Ranges - from 50 - 150m typically, but I did take one shot on an injured beast, dropping it on the spot. When we ranged the shot, it was 235m....
. So, in short, I'm well pleased with both the accuracy, and the terminal performance.
Ranges - from 50 - 150m typically, but I did take one shot on an injured beast, dropping it on the spot. When we ranged the shot, it was 235m....
. So, in short, I'm well pleased with both the accuracy, and the terminal performance.
Not without a huge amount of guesswork and conjecture!
My take on this is based on what the manufacturer is reporting
Slowed down to take into account the millisecond time frame from impact to exit
High Velocity - Huge impact force from high velocity, massive expansion to full limit of deformation in a very short timescale followed by pass through creating a wound channel.
If we assume that the higher velocity involves the breaking off of some petals then the resultant core passes through the rest of the carcase as a lower velocity and mass.
Moderate Velocity - Impact Force followed by a slower transition into full expansion more likely to maintain mass, max diameter and pass through with a potentially larger wound tract
at a guess!
Anyone who routinely shoots deer at ranges longer than 250-300m should have some concerns about over-penetration and narrow wound channels. I don’t dispute the shock factor of fast monolithics at close range, and the impressive wounding, but my view is that the longer the shot, the greater the reduction in shock and trauma due to the lesser expansion.
The bit that’s missing is side-by-side comparative testing of various lead core construction types vs monolithics. Same range, same media, what’s the relative dimensions of the resultant recovered bullets? A comparison of multiples of calibre would be very interesting.
The bit that’s missing is side-by-side comparative testing of various lead core construction types vs monolithics. Same range, same media, what’s the relative dimensions of the resultant recovered bullets? A comparison of multiples of calibre would be very interesting.
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