BASC to remove "Legal Expenses Cover" wef 31 July 2020

[daytona mark]

If this the case I am out .shows me just how much out of tune with the membership these people really are they should have asked us ,not difficult

 

[Lateral]

If you are a BASC member and have any queries or feedback about this please email me at conor.ogorman@basc.org.uk with your membership number and I will ensure that someone gets back to you.

Conor,

I think members are expressing both queries, and "feedback", on here !

Why should we, members, have to email you, when "you" have been quite happy to post the announcements, and engage with us on the Stalking Directory ?

WHY would you want to deal with emails, and just pass them on to someone else to actually address them, when, you can just make another post, and address SM members all at the same time ?

 

[jimmy milnes]

.

 

[jimmy milnes]

Possibly because half those involved on this thread are not BASC members.
Not saying removal of the added insurance is right as things are supposed to move forward/for the better not worse

 

[finnbear270]

Still got my wagbi badge from 1970 the founders must be turning in their graves!

Me too.

 

[finnbear270]

Conor,

I think members are expressing both queries, and "feedback", on here !

Why should we, members, have to email you, when "you" have been quite happy to post the announcements, and engage with us on the Stalking Directory ?

WHY would you want to deal with emails, and just pass them on to someone else to actually address them, when, you can just make another post, and address SM members all at the same time ?

Because it's too close to what some members wanted that new building to be used for, ONLINE ENGAGEMENT / VOTING / DISCUSSION etc.

 

[sikamalc]

This image was posted on Pigeon Watch. I had to smile at the last sentence. Given, of course, the recent BASC musings on lead shot. Maybe someone else wants to cut and paste the picture below and start a thread on it elsewhere on SD?

View attachment 167156

Well that just about says it all for BASC. I suggest you move out of the countryside and back to the city where you are probably from. Wonder what salary the BASC Vice President is on?
Dare I say probably a huge wage, most likely far more than the farmer whos crops are being protected?

 

[Triggermortis]

And to rub salt in the wound Mr Glenser QC is the last one to have to worry about legal expenses cover ?

 

[Mickeydredd]

I am still as I decided to hold on to the AGMwhich was July I believe and debate the lead issue but this is Not Good! does this removal of legal expenses mean if you get an unfortunate ricochet and kills say a prize ram in a field half a mile away and the farmer decides to sue you that you have no cover for that either or is it just against police forces for licensing issues?

You still have third party liability cover that would pay for the prize ram. I doubt that would go to court.

 

[kes]

Wasn't Mr Glenser the Chairman when the Great Medical Debate was at its high/low point ?
This article gives a new perspective on what NIMBY ism is, and from the current/soon to be Vice president -I'm sure I have seen that somewhere?

 

[nic531]

The full text of the BASC briefing on this topic is as follows:

BASC acts in the best interests of its members and shooting. With regards to the legal expense’s insurance only around 150 (1 in 1000) members a year make a claim, and of those only around a half (1 in 2000 members) have their cases taken up. Yet the legal expenses policy costs almost £1 million. The cost of this insurance continues to rise rapidly each year, whilst at the same time stricter conditions and exclusions are being added to the policy.

The legal expenses insurance policy is no longer providing a product which is in the best interests of members. As a result, BASC Council has decided to remove it from the membership package from July 31, 2020.

We have not taken this decision lightly.

The decision does not affect the membership liability or personal accident insurances which includes:

• up to £10 million Public Liability Cover
• up to £10 million Employer Liability Cover
• up to £10 million Product Liability Cover
• up to £50,000 cover for personal accidents resulting in the loss of sight, hearing, or limbs

Our firearms teams will still be on hand to provide advice and guidance to all members on firearms and licencing matters. Our public liability and personal accident insurances are unaffected and remain in place.

BASC’s resources are managed by Council so that we can continue to fight for shooting and benefit members.

Legal expenses insurance Q&A

Q: When will he cover end?

A: This insurance cover will cease on 31st July 2020.

Q: Why is BASC making this change?

A: The cost of paying for this type of insurance is increasing at an astronomic level, it’s not fair that all members should be paying for a cover that most members will never use, that is not in the best interests of our members and is potentially against the Financial Conduct Authority rules.

Q: Will this decrease the cost of membership?

A: No, the cost of providing insurances as part of the membership package is approximately £13.50. The cost varies each month depending on the size of the membership and of course at renewal when the annual premium is calculated. The rest of the membership subscriptions goes to the running of the Association and all the additional activities we undertake like judicial reviews for example. Partial refunds will also not be given for the reason stated above.

Q: In the years that the policy has been in place, has it made much difference?

A: Whereas there have been some individual successes the police have maintained gross inconsistency, indeed in some cases it seems to have been worse.

Q: Will I still get help from the BASC Firearms team with issues I may have with the possession and use of firearms?

A: Yes, absolutely, the firearms team within BASC are a unique member benefit and will now be able to focus even more on direct assistance of members.

Q: What are the BASC firearms team going to do to help?

A: The BASC firearms team will continue to operate at a strategic level lobbying the Policing minister, Home Office, and liaising with National Police Chiefs Council Firearms and Explosives Licensing Working Group to represent shooters interests and strive for a fair and consistent licensing system.

Q: The cost of insurance is advertised as £13.50 yet we are saying that it is too expensive why is that?

A: £13.50 is an approximate cost of the insurance element and it varies from month to month and year to year depending on the number of members and the cost of renewing the policies. The significant increase in the cost of the LEI would increase the approximate cost greatly and impact our financial resources to enable us to provide all our current services.

The BASC firearms experts are on hand to give direct help, support and advice to individual members on specific firearms licencing and possession issues.

Conor, In your role do you have access to the number of members that utilise the other sections of the Insurance cover that you mention....

• up to £10 million Public Liability Cover................. how many claims on this, especially as most people have this as part of their house Insurance
• up to £10 million Employer Liability Cover............ what % of the members employ anyone?
• up to £10 million Product Liability Cover............... What % make an item? if you sell something then its covered by the manufacturers liability
• up to £50,000 cover for personal accidents resulting in the loss of sight, hearing, or limbs............ how many claims on this... if someones eases fault then down to their insurance if the person was negligent.

The whole purpose of insurance is a gamble that hopefully you will not use it, but have it if required....... If it is saving a million quid, why not directly employ a barrister or two full time... what do they earn: 150 grand a year? get a couple and utilise them!

I am the club Secretary of a club and have spent the last 5 years arguing against leaving BASC and no longer being affiliated. As an organisation they are handing out ammo to the nay sayers all the time. You are meant to be an organisation that has a major role in education regarding game and promoting shooting both to the public and politicians..... the standards that you show in putting your point across to your members astound me, you ignore them and treat them like mushrooms!

 

[Mickeydredd]

Wonder what salary the BASC Vice President is on?
Dare I say probably a huge wage, most likely far more than the farmer whos crops are being protected?

Probably a lot more than the piddly £4k worth of shooting he currently costs that some are moaning about on here anyway

 

[Mickeydredd]

The whole purpose of insurance is a gamble that hopefully you will not use it, but have it if required....... If it is saving a million quid, why not directly employ a barrister or two full time... what do they earn: 150 grand a year? get a couple and utilise them!

A decent non-London based one will cost £2.5k per day

 

[Mickeydredd]

A big, if not the main, reason I imagine they have dropped this insurance is due to the rise in staff numbers and their costs. Year on year they have risen by over a million pounds. How much did this insurance cost again?

 

[kes]

A decent non-London based one will cost £2.5k per day

Quite simply, having a barrister 'on call', without paying a salary but a 'retainer' would very probably work. He could have his clerk decide which cases were worth pursuing from a legal perspective. I'm sorry but I cant find anything in this which would cause me to understand and defend BASC's actions even from a totally unbiased viewpoint.
Did anyone ask the members if they preferred more staff or legal cover for firearms problems ? If so why not better research the actual costs and get the figures right first time ? Remember no-one is forcing BASC to make these mistakes - they are unforced errors.

 

[terrier1]

273 posts it look like BASC bashing is becoming very popular or are the members finally getting their head out of the sand. I would love to be a fly on the wall at the next AGM. Would say top people need some tin hats.

 

[Mickeydredd]

Did anyone ask the members if they preferred more staff or legal cover for firearms problems ? If so why not better research the actual costs and get the figures right first time ? Remember no-one is forcing BASC to make these mistakes - they are unforced errors.

Well I'm certainly not convinced that the 38% increase in Communications and Public Affairs staff has been good value for money.......

 

[finnbear270]

Maybe they might need another new building to house them.

 

[Roestalker39]

Well I'm certainly not convinced that the 38% increase in Communications and Public Affairs staff has been good value for money.......

Stick with them though they’ll come good

 

[25 Sharps]

This image was posted on Pigeon Watch. I had to smile at the last sentence. Given, of course, the recent BASC musings on lead shot. Maybe someone else wants to cut and paste the picture below and start a thread on it elsewhere on SD?
M

View attachment 167156

JUST WOW!!!

That absolutely says it all for me, the fact these ‘guns’ probably work full time and are doing this on a voluntary basis ruling out any day but the weekend and the fact that they are worried about rough and driven shooting as if that is the only shooting that matters.

And that’s the Vice President! Says everything about their view on shooting that is far more valid and valuable than driven fricking pheasants.

Hope the 3 shot gets upgraded to a 8 shot sometime soon!