A message to BASC...

[David.evans]

It’s takes me about 5 minutes to read it , of what’s any use

 

[kes]

I am just glad to see someone who is more argumentative than me about ...................... Needless to say I have some sympathy with his viewpoint.

 

[AGR]

I was there for Countryside March along with many shooters, I even flew back to the UK for it. The pistol bans came in two parts, full bore / centre fire and then later rimfire. Before the bans and in between many of us lobied our MP's and tried to muster support but I don't remember other countryside sports and even some shooting sports giving us support as we'd given them. Sad, but we seem just as divided today.

Many of us think and thought exactly the same.

 

[bottletopbill]

100% behind you guy's

 

[Conor O'Gorman]

Many comments on firearms licensing. I would recommend a listen of Episode 17 of the BASC podcast for a detailed 30 mins insight into the issues from a police perspective and a BASC perspective (BASC bashers - health warning - please don't listen to Episode 18!).

Podcast

Each episode includes the latest news and views relating to shooting with expert analysis of shooting-related affairs and interviews.

basc.org.uk

Many comments on lead ammunition. The following webpage has useful info:

Ammunition - BASC

Ammunition Read all of our latest advice and guidance on ammunition, whatever your chosen shooting discipline. Shotgun Rifle Airgun Lead ammunition restriction proposals The Heath and Safety Executive published the UK REACH restriction dossier for lead ammunition on 6 May. The document outlines...

basc.org.uk

See also an assessment by scientists at the GWCT with useful info here:

Lead Ammunition - Game and Wildlife Conservation Trust

www.gwct.org.uk

Every BASC member has received a copy of a leaflet about the voluntary move away from lead shot with the Jan/Feb 2022 BASC magazine and a downloadable copy via our BASC Live email - which has been very well received on social media. As well as addressing misinformation and conspiracy theories around the voluntary transition and the impact of lead ammunition on wildlife, environment and human health we state the following:

• The voluntary phased transition away from lead shot for live quarry shooting is a key argument against premature restrictions. However, time is already running out.
  
  
• A series of reviews and consultations are taking place within the UK and overseas investigating the risks to the environment and human health from the use of lead ammunition.
  
  
• BASC will ensure that the evidence is objectively evaluated.
  
  
• There may be restriction proposals for some uses and types of lead ammunition as soon as 2023. BASC will ensure that they consider the complex mix of socio-economics, technical factors and attitudes.
  
  
• We will give a voice for both live quarry and target shooting interests.
  
  
• BASC will ensure that that lead ammunition used for target shooting is not impacted by restrictions aimed at reducing the risks caused by live quarry shooting; and vice versa.
  
  
• If we have concerns that legislative proposals are disproportionate and will damage shooting, we will lobby for them to be revised.
  
  
• We are keeping the government, MPs, and other legislative assemblies informed and we are countering misinformed lobbying by those wanting nothing short of a complete ban on lead ammunition.
  
  
• BASC is working with the cartridge manufacturers and proof houses. We are issuing advice on how to transition and constantly updating our training programme to include the necessary elements.
  
  
• BASC will ensure that further restrictions on lead ammunition do not result in a reduction in people participating in shooting due to a lack of ammunition for their guns and shooting disciplines.

 

[Liveonce]

Many comments on firearms licensing. I would recommend a listen of Episode 17 of the BASC podcast for a detailed 30 mins insight into the issues from a police perspective and a BASC perspective (BASC bashers - health warning - please don't listen to Episode 18!).

Podcast

Each episode includes the latest news and views relating to shooting with expert analysis of shooting-related affairs and interviews.

basc.org.uk

Many comments on lead ammunition. The following webpage has useful info:

Ammunition - BASC

Ammunition Read all of our latest advice and guidance on ammunition, whatever your chosen shooting discipline. Shotgun Rifle Airgun Lead ammunition restriction proposals The Heath and Safety Executive published the UK REACH restriction dossier for lead ammunition on 6 May. The document outlines...

basc.org.uk

See also an assessment by scientists at the GWCT with useful info here:

Lead Ammunition - Game and Wildlife Conservation Trust

www.gwct.org.uk

Every BASC member has received a copy of a leaflet about the voluntary move away from lead shot with the Jan/Feb 2022 BASC magazine and a downloadable copy via our BASC Live email - which has been very well received on social media. As well as addressing misinformation and conspiracy theories around the voluntary transition and the impact of lead ammunition on wildlife, environment and human health we state the following:

• The voluntary phased transition away from lead shot for live quarry shooting is a key argument against premature restrictions. However, time is already running out.
  
  
• A series of reviews and consultations are taking place within the UK and overseas investigating the risks to the environment and human health from the use of lead ammunition.
  
  
• BASC will ensure that the evidence is objectively evaluated.
  
  
• There may be restriction proposals for some uses and types of lead ammunition as soon as 2023. BASC will ensure that they consider the complex mix of socio-economics, technical factors and attitudes.
  
  
• We will give a voice for both live quarry and target shooting interests.
  
  
• BASC will ensure that that lead ammunition used for target shooting is not impacted by restrictions aimed at reducing the risks caused by live quarry shooting; and vice versa.
  
  
• If we have concerns that legislative proposals are disproportionate and will damage shooting, we will lobby for them to be revised.
  
  
• We are keeping the government, MPs, and other legislative assemblies informed and we are countering misinformed lobbying by those wanting nothing short of a complete ban on lead ammunition.
  
  
• BASC is working with the cartridge manufacturers and proof houses. We are issuing advice on how to transition and constantly updating our training programme to include the necessary elements.
  
  
• BASC will ensure that further restrictions on lead ammunition do not result in a reduction in people participating in shooting due to a lack of ammunition for their guns and shooting disciplines.

added a couple of words for you.

• BASC will ensure that further restrictions on lead ammunition do not result in a reduction in people participating in shooting due to a lack of affordable ammunition (cartridges) for their guns and shooting disciplines.

Good luck you will need it.

 

[bottletopbill]

Conor O'Gorman over a few years as been why I stayed with BASC. We should now call it the yuppie select committee as they only care for them own.

 

[willie_gunn]

Conor O'Gorman over a few years as been why I stayed with BASC. We should now call it the yuppie select committee as they only care for them own.

There is nothing to stop you, or indeed others here, setting up an organisation that looks after your own.

It would surely make sense, since you so clearly feel the current organisations do not represent you?

Keep in mind I am not talking about an organisation that has cheap insurance, but one which is going to advocate for those causes you feel are closest to your heart.

 

[Mike L]

Was that an echo I just heard?

 

[User00053]

There is nothing to stop you, or indeed others here, setting up an organisation that looks after your own.

It would surely make sense, since you so clearly feel the current organisations do not represent you?

Keep in mind I am not talking about an organisation that has cheap insurance, but one which is going to advocate for those causes you feel are closest to your heart.

Could well be wrong but at one point thought basc did, some question how it is run and the decisions it makes and lack of consultation with members who shoot. Surely they can please themselves and do, members are simply that with no say in how it’s run like it or lump it , with no alternative. Not unlike a forum if you don’t like leave.
Would have thought it would be better to change leadership not unlike poltics, but not possible , there bat and ball.
Agree with all you say, and basc better than nothing.

 

[User00053]

Conor O'Gorman over a few years as been why I stayed with BASC. We should now call it the yuppie select committee as they only care for them own.

Have encountered a few over time and known one , who was there to pass time before moving on on, no longer member but guess Conor is doing best he can and is appreciated for doing so, well by me anyway.
Wagbi lead the way in its field and achieved soo much, lead by passionate wildfowlers of the old school, then morphed and tried to represent all facets of field sports, a “one stop shop” which diluted its position due to other bodies representing, stalking. Clay shooting and target. Don’t think you could get the staff anymore to crew the ship even if needed, so basc today probably as good as it gets for what it is.

 

[willie_gunn]

Have encountered a few over time and known one , who was there to pass time before moving on on, no longer member but guess Conor is doing best he can and is appreciated for doing so, well by me anyway.
Wagbi lead the way in its field and achieved soo much, lead by passionate wildfowlers of the old school, then morphed and tried to represent all facets of field sports, a “one stop shop” which diluted its position due to other bodies representing, stalking. Clay shooting and target. Don’t think you could get the staff anymore to crew the ship even if needed, so basc today probably as good as it gets for what it is.

What chance, would you think, that WAGBI could have survived as a dedicated wildfowling organisation until 2022? If it had, do you believe it would have been able to achieve anything?

As an example, it was barely 8 years before WAGBI changed its name to BASC that the UK formally joined the EU. How, I wonder, would WAGBI have coped in dealing with the changes in European politics over the intervening years?

The truth is that society in general, the public attitudes towards fieldsports, the nature of politics and lobbying/pressure groups, the media, and a whole bunch of other things besides - not least the size and make-up of the shooting population itself - have changed dramatically in the 40+ years since WAGBI became BASC in 1981.

We can hark back to those days and think about how wonderful things were, and how great our fieldsports organisations were, but they were completely different times.

 

[Cranborne]

Good result against Wild Justice reported today; I'll happily pay my sub to BASC as long they continue to obstruct Packham's plans.

 

[User00053]

I have really no idea wg, and clearly times have changed.

 

[willie_gunn]

I have really no idea wg, and clearly times have changed.

I grew up with the British Field Sports Society, and still hark back to the days before it became the Countryside Alliance. Great as it was, though, I doubt the old BFSS would still be around today. It had to move with the times.

The sad reality is that what matters these days is money. I don't mean the £10m or so that BASC has in the bank. I mean real money, like the £190m that sits in the RSPCA's coffers. Even the League Against Cruel Sports has nearly £3m on deposit gaining interest!

Unfortunately a large proportion of the shooting community is either unable or unwilling to accept this. It doesn't sufficiently value the sport we have to realistically fund the protection of it.

Instead people complain about auctions for a day's game shooting or expensive shotguns, saying they don't represent the type of shooting they do. In reality, however, it is those type of events that are generating the funds to protect all our sport, from the guy shooting pigeons in the farmer's field to the stalker on the Hill, just as much as the city type on a corporate driven day.

There will be no point shopping around for the cheapest shooting insurance once our sport has gone.

 

[308tikka]

Many comments on firearms licensing. I would recommend a listen of Episode 17 of the BASC podcast for a detailed 30 mins insight into the issues from a police perspective and a BASC perspective (BASC bashers - health warning - please don't listen to Episode 18!).

Podcast

Each episode includes the latest news and views relating to shooting with expert analysis of shooting-related affairs and interviews.

basc.org.uk

Many comments on lead ammunition. The following webpage has useful info:

Ammunition - BASC

Ammunition Read all of our latest advice and guidance on ammunition, whatever your chosen shooting discipline. Shotgun Rifle Airgun Lead ammunition restriction proposals The Heath and Safety Executive published the UK REACH restriction dossier for lead ammunition on 6 May. The document outlines...

basc.org.uk

See also an assessment by scientists at the GWCT with useful info here:

Lead Ammunition - Game and Wildlife Conservation Trust

www.gwct.org.uk

Every BASC member has received a copy of a leaflet about the voluntary move away from lead shot with the Jan/Feb 2022 BASC magazine and a downloadable copy via our BASC Live email - which has been very well received on social media. As well as addressing misinformation and conspiracy theories around the voluntary transition and the impact of lead ammunition on wildlife, environment and human health we state the following:

• The voluntary phased transition away from lead shot for live quarry shooting is a key argument against premature restrictions. However, time is already running out.
  
  
• A series of reviews and consultations are taking place within the UK and overseas investigating the risks to the environment and human health from the use of lead ammunition.
  
  
• BASC will ensure that the evidence is objectively evaluated.
  
  
• There may be restriction proposals for some uses and types of lead ammunition as soon as 2023. BASC will ensure that they consider the complex mix of socio-economics, technical factors and attitudes.
  
  
• We will give a voice for both live quarry and target shooting interests.
  
  
• BASC will ensure that that lead ammunition used for target shooting is not impacted by restrictions aimed at reducing the risks caused by live quarry shooting; and vice versa.
  
  
• If we have concerns that legislative proposals are disproportionate and will damage shooting, we will lobby for them to be revised.
  
  
• We are keeping the government, MPs, and other legislative assemblies informed and we are countering misinformed lobbying by those wanting nothing short of a complete ban on lead ammunition.
  
  
• BASC is working with the cartridge manufacturers and proof houses. We are issuing advice on how to transition and constantly updating our training programme to include the necessary elements.
  
  
• BASC will ensure that further restrictions on lead ammunition do not result in a reduction in people participating in shooting due to a lack of ammunition for their guns and shooting disciplines.

You will ensure nothing.

 

[kes]

I don't accept that fair criticism is 'BASC bashing' , everything I have suggested is based on fact, not fiction or wishful thinking - other than that, I have much better things to do than listen to 18 episodes of a 'podcast'.
I wonder how much medicals, as well as non-lead ammunition, as well as, higher SGC and FC fees will impact those who want to start shooting ?
BASC have demonstrated no control over any of these issues so any suggestion they want to protect shooting is nonsense - young people are the future of shooting.

 

[User00053]

I grew up with the British Field Sports Society, and still hark back to the days before it became the Countryside Alliance. Great as it was, though, I doubt the old BFSS would still be around today. It had to move with the times.

The sad reality is that what matters these days is money. I don't mean the £10m or so that BASC has in the bank. I mean real money, like the £190m that sits in the RSPCA's coffers. Even the League Against Cruel Sports has nearly £3m on deposit gaining interest!

Unfortunately a large proportion of the shooting community is either unable or unwilling to accept this. It doesn't sufficiently value the sport we have to realistically fund the protection of it.

Instead people complain about auctions for a day's game shooting or expensive shotguns, saying they don't represent the type of shooting they do. In reality, however, it is those type of events that are generating the funds to protect all our sport, from the guy shooting pigeons in the farmer's field to the stalker on the Hill, just as much as the city type on a corporate driven day.

There will be no point shopping around for the cheapest shooting insurance once our sport has gone.

Really shocked, the bfss I had forgot I was once a member, think the rspca do sterling work in general but highly suspicious of the rspb, no way uk shooting organisations could compete funds wise and we are a minority.
Take into account ownership of premier sporting estates there is some serious financial clout available, but how this would benefit the shooting community as a whole uncertain.
Society as we know does not agree nor understand our culture and it will go just a question of when not if, and what could be justified in the eyes of the masses may remain.
The insurance side could be viewed in many ways but for me not an issue, pays money takes pick and all that, stopped been a sport for me forty years ago, and became work unfortunately!

 

[The deer man]

And for those...very very many...who shoot what they eat and do not and have never sold to game dealers or anyone else? The person who walks up hoping for a bird for the pot or the person helping control woodpigeons? They can presumably go hang can they?

This is BASC throwing shooting folk under the bus to protect the huge amount of members' money it has punted to the British Game Alliance justification for excessive bags (birds per hectare vs natural density/capacity of the land to hold those birds) on the spurious grounds that what is shot is sold as food.

There was no need for BASC to promote this "ban" on lead shot as vis-a-vis game actually sold to game dealers it would have been self policing and with game retained by the shooter his or her eating of lead shot game would have been at their own risk.

Are you really saying the extra 50 pence'ish depending on whether you reload or buy factory for a copper bullet makes a big difference for the casual / recreational stalker shooting for the pot?!

Same for the odd walked up bird. As for pigeon shooting I've seen some steel shot for sale at the same price as lead but maybe the supplier made a pricing error?!! As for whether steel works, no. 7's on pigeon work very well. You might think thats the wrong way along the scale but its a bit like the .177 v's .22 air rifle debate as to which is better.

Personally I haven't completely changed to steel for pheasants, partridge, pigeon yet because of the ammount of lead cartridges I have left but I've been shooting duck succesfully with steel ever since we had to and they still keep coming down - maybe they just had heart attacks!

 

[The deer man]

The freezer fillers like myself could also be perfectly happy to just fill their freezer an keep a balance from the odd farm local to them that has a small population of deer.
I work full time. Train, an have run in comps with my GSPs which takes time to train to that level. If i get out once every 2 or 3 weeks and average half a dozen or so deer for myself an family im doing ok an it certainly doesn't make you a superior to me..
Jimmy.

And so you should enjoy recreational stalking as everyone should enjoy it at all levels. Strangely we are all in this together!