sikastag270
Well-Known Member
Just out of interest was wondering what was peoples heaviest weight for a sika hind (larder weight) in Scotland?
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Largest Sika Hind - Larder weight
- Thread starter sikastag270
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28kg lardered for me last year. Old hind.
Freeforester
Well-Known Member
In a deer park in Skåne, Sweden where the deer were introduced to a type of mineral block, the 100 yearlings culled each autumn, collectively gained two tonnes in the two years from when the blocks were introduced, from 25 kilo skinned to next year's crop of 30kg, to the second year crop since the mums first had access to the blocks then produced calves year 1 and grew to yearlings year 2 to 35kg per animal, a gain of 10kilos average over 100 head.
Was the head and feet off everythingg out. Skin onHad some last year that was in 38 kg to 42 kg
The biggest Sika I ever brought into a gamedealer was 53kgs in the skin without the head. It was remarked to be the second heaviest that season. Oops just noticed the original question was posted relevant to Scotland and With regard to hinds, This was Wicklow Ireland.
Dunwaters
Well-Known Member
Biggest was 37k, no legs or head and I suspect it was a hybrid, adult Sika hinds average around the 27k mark with yearlings and small animals down around the 20-22k zone.
I've had a few stags north of 50k ( hybrids?) but most are 37 - 43k.
Stag weights are pretty variable, with rapid weight loss and loss of condition during the rut.
They regularly injure each other too, lots of limping and puncture wounds, so go into winter in poor condition with little chance of recovering it.
By the middle of December most of them are a sad and sorry shadow of their September/October selves
I've had a few stags north of 50k ( hybrids?) but most are 37 - 43k.
Stag weights are pretty variable, with rapid weight loss and loss of condition during the rut.
They regularly injure each other too, lots of limping and puncture wounds, so go into winter in poor condition with little chance of recovering it.
By the middle of December most of them are a sad and sorry shadow of their September/October selves
NickJ
Well-Known Member
As you asked about hinds and in Scotland, larder weight: 31kgs in Invernesshire in a grass park. Most off that estate were nearer 20 (higher up the hill.)
As mentioned above as hybridisation is so common in Scottish sika (bar the Peebles/Tweedsmuir population) that really clouds it.
Heaviest sika I have known were in the New Forest and here in Bowland they are not far behind. I gather the heaviest pure animals are at the north of the Dorset range where they have access to less acidic arable ground.
As mentioned above as hybridisation is so common in Scottish sika (bar the Peebles/Tweedsmuir population) that really clouds it.
Heaviest sika I have known were in the New Forest and here in Bowland they are not far behind. I gather the heaviest pure animals are at the north of the Dorset range where they have access to less acidic arable ground.
North Stalker
Well-Known Member
47Kg larder weight. Never had anything close since. Average Hind 23Kg, average Stag 27Kg.
Largest hind Tweedsmuir area to dealer 84lbs.
Largest pure Sika stag same area, to dealer 144lbs.
Just over the 74 there are plenty of hybrids and I shot one not far from source of Tweed nearly 220lbs.
Bowland deer are bigger as not pure Jap but mainly Manchurian were introduced.
Dorset and New forest as you say bigger animals on good ground.
NickJ
Well-Known Member
Morning TFH
Indeed, I should have said for the Peebles/Tweedsmuir population 'east of the M74.'
I'm Chairman of the Bowland DMG and when I moved to the area about 15 years ago a few locals thought the sika were Manchurian. I have made their origins a study for the past 10 years or so. The Manchurian rumour mainly stems back to G.Kenneth Whitehead's change of mind about them in the early 2000s and it was widely reported including by Peter Carne in a 2003 issue of Stalking Magazine. Different books say different things but most seem to use Whitehead as there source and, as mentioned he had a change of mind.
Our sika certainly have some Manchurian traits in size, antler structure and velvet colour but on those three characteristics they cannot be pure Manchurian. On skull nose length they measure as Japanese.
Some experts believe Manchurian are Japanese sika with some red influence. Either way we have reds only a few miles north of our sika range and we see hybrids and species' out of their range about every other year.
As you know Japanese have black velvet, Manchurian (I have seen in parks) rusty brown. Ours are off black to very dark brown/almost black. Red stag velvet is, of course dark brown, hybrids darker.
I have seen the records that the Bowland sika bought by Lord Ribblesdale and Captain Ormerod were from Powerscourt Park and I gather the Powerscourt records says that the imports were all from Japan (islands) and not from Manchuria (which of course in on the mainland and not Japan.)
So, it's not conclusive but I can find no concrete evidence of Manchurian influence and it is possibly more likely that the original releases were of a sub strain of Manchurian X or it's the red influence that makes them different than the Japanese sika I have studied and stalked in other parts of the UK.
They are, to my mind the most fascinating of species.
glasshalffull
Well-Known Member
Sika-Red hybrids 
Wicklow mountains full of em..
Wicklow mountains full of em..
NickJ
Well-Known Member
Sika-Red hybrids
Wicklow mountains full of em..
Indeed, a friend took me out there about 20 years ago, I could not believe it
I used to be secretary of the Borders Sika deer group and understood that the initial Bowland deer were Manchurian brought in for hunting with hounds which didn't work out. There are Formosan Sika at Cornbury in Oxon and they look similar to the Manchurian in every way. An interesting thing about the Tweed deer is that there are some animals which are black all year round. This apparently stems from the introduction of a stag from Kerama islands to Dawyck park from Whipsnade. The Kerama deer are a sub species from the Southern islands of Japan, pure jap but black in pelage.
The Dawyck deer were originally bought direct from Japan in the 1800's and escaped during and after WW2. I also keepered in Wicklow and the deer in the Wicklow mountains are a Mish mash. No pure Red some pure LOOKING Sika and hybrids all over.
NickJ
Well-Known Member
Indeed they were purchased from Powerscourt for hunting (carted) with hounds and were in a pen at Ribblesdale's Gisburne Park estate. Lord Powerscourt was a good collector but great salesman I gather! It was a disaster - the stags just ran to the thickest cover and lay down. The owners gave up, the walls came down and the rest is history.
I have heard about the black sika in the Tweed catchment but still yet to see one, I didn't know about their origin theory, interesting.
Indeed I read that the reason the borders sika (East of the M74) are purest in Scotland is they were imported direct where as the native reds used to hop in to Powerscourt Park and there was some hybridisation in the park sika.
Nick
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