Alcoholic neighbour advice

[charlieboy-shooter]

Hi,
I'm not sure I should be posting this on an open forum and in truth I guess, I'm partly doing it for my conscience. However, I know the occupations and experience of the people on here is vast and partly despite seeking help elsewhere I don't know where else to turn to get help which may prove life saving. So I'm going to start with an apology as it couldn't be more unstalking related so its certainly 'off topic'.

My neighbour now lives alone and is an alcoholic. I think his current drinking spell started back in August last year and as before the longer the drinking spell lasts the less he eats as he has zero appetite.
I have been going in to his property since January and despite my best efforts for him to seek help, tidy up and removing the vast amounts of drinking related rubbish and initially lots of partly eatern mouldy food I have noticed that there is no real food related rubbish anymore. So despite his hours being all over the place he has not been eating much more than a bag of crisps a day for weeks now.
The main change is he now sleeping pretty much constantly but is still drinking when awake. Now he is a seasoned, I suspect life long drinker so he is not like you or I that would need to sleep after drinking to much during the day.
I don't know if this change in him is the sign of the beginning of the end so I phoned NHS 111 during the night as I was at work on nights and was asking if they could clarify if the symptoms/ scenario was a sign of the beginning of the end. I was asked if his life was I danger and if so I should request an ambulance but that was my entire point. But so far it ended with no action despite several conversations with them during the night with myself but they have been unable to contact him. I have contacted various services but without any real progress to date and I worry time is running out. I have spoken to the Samaritans, Local council safe guarding officer. But as I'm now struggling to speak to my neighbour. So I suspect that any help offered from any service will be unable to contact him.

I know ultimately the only real person that can help him is himself.

I hope someone from adult social services or with experience could offer advice. As I fear he doesn't have long left.
Or should I just request an ambulance and the associated risk that may entail.

Thank you for any guidance.

 

[palmer_mike]

A very sad situation for your neighbour and you. Hope someone will be along with helpful advice soon

 

[DamDama]

Hi,
I'm not sure I should be posting this on an open forum and in truth I guess, I'm partly doing it for my conscience. However, I know the occupations and experience of the people on here is vast and partly despite seeking help elsewhere I don't know where else to turn to get help which may prove life saving. So I'm going to start with an apology as it couldn't be more unstalking related so its certainly 'off topic'.

My neighbour now lives alone and is an alcoholic. I think his current drinking spell started back in August last year and as before the longer the drinking spell lasts the less he eats as he has zero appetite.
I have been going in to his property since January and despite my best efforts for him to seek help, tidy up and removing the vast amounts of drinking related rubbish and initially lots of partly eatern mouldy food I have noticed that there is no real food related rubbish anymore. So despite his hours being all over the place he has not been eating much more than a bag of crisps a day for weeks now.
The main change is he now sleeping pretty much constantly but is still drinking when awake. Now he is a seasoned, I suspect life long drinker so he is not like you or I that would need to sleep after drinking to much during the day.
I don't know if this change in him is the sign of the beginning of the end so I phoned NHS 111 during the night as I was at work on nights and was asking if they could clarify if the symptoms/ scenario was a sign of the beginning of the end. I was asked if his life was I danger and if so I should request an ambulance but that was my entire point. But so far it ended with no action despite several conversations with them during the night with myself but they have been unable to contact him. I have contacted various services but without any real progress to date and I worry time is running out. I have spoken to the Samaritans, Local council safe guarding officer. But as I'm now struggling to speak to my neighbour. So I suspect that any help offered from any service will be unable to contact him.

I know ultimately the only real person that can help him is himself.

I hope someone from adult social services or with experience could offer advice. As I fear he doesn't have long left.
Or should I just request an ambulance and the associated risk that may entail.

Thank you for any guidance.

Charlie
I had a very similar situation and approached social services whose line was if he doesn’t ask for help we can’t force anything on him. Sorry I can’t be more positive

 

[Cottis]

Alcoholism is brutal. I used to live with a "friend" who had an issue with drink. He certainly was not at the stage of your neighbour. He was a functioning alcoholic but without going in to the details of the various issues and incidents, one thing became very very obvious.

That was that despite my best efforts to help, provide sources of assistance, give advice and various other efforts to try and do my best for him, it was just clear that nothing can be done without the individual seeking help and that starts with them wanting to seek help or having someone help them to do so.

I know this person has still not sought help and it is not 8yrs later. He is still sort of functioning but I also expect to receive a call one day saying he has been found in a ditch somewhere.

When an addiction eats you so much that nothing else serves as any sort of importance, it is very hard to get through to that person. Your neighbour sounds very very far gone by the sounds of it and as harsh as this sounds, there is probably no helping him. It sounds like you are an awesome neighbour/person and more people would be lucky to have someone like you around but despite their fortune, it also highlights that until someone seeks help, you are basically just waiting for the inevitable to happen.

When that happens and they need emergency medical help, then that is the only time someone can help them. Mostly because the person is unable to say no themselves and they are basically about to die so the necessary intervention takes place.

Well done for being a good human being and caring. Unless you can get them to accept help, I am not sure what more you can do. It is so harsh because you feel helpless but alas, it is what it is and you are clearly providing a bridge for them to accept help if they change their mind.

Sorry to be basically no help but I think you should be happy with your approach and best of luck for the near future.

 

[CarlW]

Trying to help an alcoholic against their will is one of the most soul-destroying tasks known to man. If you make him your project, I promise that he will break your heart. Just stay in contact with him so that you can support him if he asks.

Best of luck. You are a good person and I wish you well.

Kind regards,

Carl

 

[Stalker62]

Well this is tricky.

It appears you have done all that can be done for your neighbour.

This may sound harsh - forgive me, it is not meant to be.

For those who choose a certain path, it is their path they choose. Self-destructive lifestyles are exactly that. You can offer help, guidance, assistance but it is their life.
You cannot save the world. Truth be told, you cannot save a single life. If they are destined to go down a particular path then they will do so.

Nothing, and I mean nothing, you can do or say, will change the (often predictable) outcome.

I have a very simplistic view on this. When you are looking at the corpse of a friend/relative/MoP, did you do all that you could to help?
If you did, and it sounds like you have done more than most, then you have done all you can.

Sometimes you can do no more...

 

[Rasputin]

Personally even though it goes against every grain to help those in need I would absolutely steer well clear last thing you need is to inadvertently get dragged into something despite trying to do the right thing which might have a negative impact on your life. Speaking from an awful experience with one or two, addicts can have a bitter and vengeful way of getting back at those trying to help them.

 

[Dan Gliballs]

Well this is tricky.

It appears you have done all that can be done for your neighbour.

This may sound harsh - forgive me, it is not meant to be.

For those who choose a certain path, it is their path they choose. Self-destructive lifestyles are exactly that. You can offer help, guidance, assistance but it is their life.
You cannot save the world. Truth be told, you cannot save a single life. If they are destined to go down a particular path then they will do so.

Nothing, and I mean nothing, you can do or say, will change the (often predictable) outcome.

I have a very simplistic view on this. When you are looking at the corpse of a friend/relative/MoP, did you do all that you could to help?
If you did, and it sounds like you have done more than most, then you have done all you can.

Sometimes you can do no more...

Nail, head, hit.

 

[User00035]

It sounds as though this person will have reached the stage of physical dependency, in which case they not only won't be able to stop, it could be dangerous to try without medical supervision. Alcoholics at that stage can go into severe shock if they just stop. He would almost certainly need medically supervised detox in a rehab centre. If he gets through that, it's certainly no cure, just the start of the process.

What is likely is that he is by now physically and psychologically incapable of helping himself. he wouldn't know where to turn and probably couldn't even manage to make the necessary phone calls.

I think, if you can get to speak to him, you need to ask him frankly if he's wants help. At least sow the seed that he does and this will only end one way without intervention. If he's in denial then he hasn't reached his rock bottom yet and he probably won't be receptive. If he is in a state of despair, then there's a chance he will be looking for a way out. Then you might be able to contact the necessary people and getting him admitted somewhere. But be prepared for the fact that even if he confesses that he is desperate to stop, he probably won't be capable of organising any of it.
If he's at the stage where he will accept help, you can only really usefully assist by leading him to it. If he isn't in that frame of mind, I fear there is nothing you can do beyond letting him know you are there and will help him if he changes his mind.

Good on you for caring though.

 

[Tugmanade]

Isn’t it sometimes a sad sad world we live in, One never knows what sometimes goes on in other peoples lives & minds to end up in these desperate situations. Does make you realise how fortunate you are.

 

[cjm1066]

He is an adult, he needs to ask for help and be receptive to the helpers.

You can only keep the door open so to speak, if you find him unconsciously etc it's 999, but alas he may well discharge himself and continue on his path.

It's horrible to watch, but you seem to have done everything reasonable, taking a step back and getting on with your life is perhaps the best option - good luck.

 

[Foxyboy43]

What a sad story, I too have seen this with a neighbour many years ago and it hurts just to think about it. The fact is that this problem can only be helped from within coupled with the hands-on professional assistance from those who know how to deal with it. It is to your eternal credit that you have come this far for them but they really need to help themselves, I am afraid. I wish you well my friend.

 

[spannulman]

I’ve been in a similar situation with two people. one a friend and one whom I managed at work. The latter fought every attempt to help him, and it took a toll on me trying to do what I felt was the right thing. I had calls from him late at night which he would then report to others as me calling him at midnight.

finally I had someone call me asking why I was outside this chaps house with the police when I was 200 miles away. He had become delusional and was calling people, saying I was breaking his door in. Very sad, but knowing what I know now I suggest you cannot do any more and leave him to it.
as has been said, people like this can be utterly selfish and reject any help you try and give and it can take a toll on your wellbeing too. This chap was dismissed in the end and found dead at home soon after. Very sad for his family.

the other person was a friend who had a successful life, a
little bit of a shady character, a Scotsman who went to school in beirut and then livEd in Beirut in the 70/80s And workEd as a pilot for various people Around the world. He had lived an interesting life but drank away everything he had and the almoner for his lodge found him dead in his flat after neighbours complained of the smell and flies Coming under the door. Very sad, and an utter waste. But there will be nothing you can do for this man beyond that which you have done already.

Your concern is understandable and human but there is nothing you can do to prevent the inevitable.

 

[Long drag]

He will drink until his health goes, runs out of money, or gets professional help, but he will not seek help, he appears to be addicted to alcohol, because it blurs reality. the problem may be much deeper, and I'm afraid society has enough problems to deal with. Unless he gets professional help, he will just become a statistic. Such is life.

 

[kes]

I would support what has been said by those with experience above.
In this case, it is difficult to say it but you are trying too hard.
Your friend is bent on self-destruction and only he will know the reason which started and makes his drinking inevitable. The truth is you cant change him - he has persisted past the point where his drinking becomes a physical necessity.

I knew someone (close to me) whose wife, whom he doted on, died of breast cancer. His parents in law blamed him (ridiculously ) for her death because he was English and she was American.
He started drinking because of the guilt he felt ( he was a social sciences and philosophy graduate) and would not be helped and subsequently died - sometimes you need to recognise that dedication can be threatening to your own life.
With the greatest respect, care such as you have can have a better and more successful outlet - just personal experience.

 

[Dalua]

I agree with most of what's been written about trying to help alcoholics. The best advice I was given when a very close friend of mine was drinking himself to death with apparent and rather disturbingly-calm intent was to be as kind to him as I could manage.

However, the OP's question seems to not to relate to to the chronic problem, but rather to an acute one in which a sick neighbour whom he would expect to able to contact is suddenly and unexpectedly not contactable at all. If he were an insulin-dependent diabetic (for example) rather than an alcoholic, I think one might already have kicked the door down?

Obviously this is a bit more nuanced, as alcoholism may often be associated with periods of 'non-contactability' which are not associated with any medical emergency - though in this chap's case, it seems a recent and unusual development.

Under these circumstances, I think it might be reasonable to be concerned that he's in need of acute medical attention. What I don't know is whether one would call the police or the ambulance service for advice on how to facilitate that?

 

[kripton]

I have no idea but would it be possible to get him sectioned? - not by you as that might make you a target for his anger, but perhaps by a relative if you know of any.
Otherwise you really seem to have done your utmost for him and now you can only watch and call the relevant authorities if the expected emergency situation arises.

 

[Utectok]

I believe Alcoholics Anonymous can send someone out fir a chat but I’m not sure if the alcoholic needs to call first? They are usually very helpful people so you could call them?

 

[charlieboy-shooter]

Hi Guys,

I know that he holds the key to his future and only he has the ability to reach that future. I suspect he is now approaching to dark a place to return now. I have just been trying to support and guide him to reach out but it has become apparent that despite what he knows and say's. As he will admit to his problem and knows he is at rock bottom but seems incapable of reaching out.

I would like to respond and thank you all for your views, kind words to me and your experiences. I haven't attempted multiple quotes before so here goes.

I had a very similar situation and approached social services whose line was if he doesn’t ask for help we can’t force anything on him. Sorry I can’t be more positive

Yes sadly that seems to be my experience here so far. Equally, without going into detail, he was picked up last year by adult social services for self neglect but ultimately refused help.

Sorry to be basically no help but I think you should be happy with your approach and best of luck for the near future.

You have helped. As helped me understand more the nature of what I'm dealing with and the probable futility of it.

Trying to help an alcoholic against their will is one of the most soul-destroying tasks known to man. If you make him your project, I promise that he will break your heart. Just stay in contact with him so that you can support him if he asks.

I have read this several times as I have found your remarks to be the one which strikes me most and its advice I would be foolish not to listen to. As I can unfortunately relate to it so thank you for making me realise this as despite the help I have offered him it has recently affected me more than I thought it would. A few hours here and there a trip to the town centre for him, so what no big deal. when he acted out a cutting his wrists and throat with a cut throat razor, that got me. I have made him aware if he needs help I will be there for him but I need to step back as it is indeed bothering me. Thank-you

This may sound harsh - forgive me, it is not meant to be.

I have a very simplistic view on this. When you are looking at the corpse of a friend/relative/MoP, did you do all that you could to help?
If you did, and it sounds like you have done more than most, then you have done all you can.

its not harsh. its realistic and truthful. That's why I asked.

It sounds as though this person will have reached the stage of physical dependency, in which case they not only won't be able to stop, it could be dangerous to try without medical supervision. Alcoholics at that stage can go into severe shock if they just stop. He would almost certainly need medically supervised detox in a rehab centre. If he gets through that, it's certainly no cure, just the start of the process.

We have spoke about this. As I'm aware from a conversation with someone that shock and toxins can be fatal so needs to be done professionally.

In this case, it is difficult to say it but you are trying too hard.

Probably true. But his family have completely washed there hands of him. I struggle to watch a fellow Human struggle. But Carl W remark has hit it for me. Not to my or my families determent.

I believe Alcoholics Anonymous can send someone out fir a chat but I’m not sure if the alcoholic needs to call first? They are usually very helpful people so you could call them

I spoke to them this afternoon. Yes. He needs to contact them. So as stated and he knows this. Only he can do it.

Someone from social services should be calling me tomorrow due to the razor scenario. We shall see.

Again thankyou for you thoughts and views they have at least helped me.

Steve

 

[Coddy]

The person needs to hit rock bottom, and declare that themself.
They are on a journey to destruction that only they can stop, or ask for help to stop.
If forced upon them and they are not ‘ready’ they just start again at the soonest possibility.