Game dealer not accepting lead shot carcasses

Yes but my frustration and bitterness is towards the shooting organisations who could, and should, have handled this so much differently.

And I also find the ‘I’m alright Jack’ brigade hugely frustrating. A lot of people on this site can, perhaps understandably, not see past the world of stalking. There’s a whole lot of other shooting that goes on out there and will be far more affected by a lead ban.
Personally I'd use quotation marks around the term "Shooting Organisations", or perhaps "The spongers who self-identify as..." .
If they had any shame they'd resign and let in the younger, savvier generation rather than keep their noses in the trough. They need sacking to a man jack.
 
Personally I'd use quotation marks around the term "Shooting Organisations", or perhaps "The spongers who self-identify as..." .
If they had any shame they'd resign and let in the younger, savvier generation rather than keep their noses in the trough. They need sacking to a man jack.
Well at least we agree on something!
 
There will be quite a few unintended consequences on the back of this move, including some which will impact on the ’Jacks’ of the piece, watch and see.

Personally I’m glad I shoot and process my own, and have enough supplies of choice to see the job done, but I can see problems for others, and not all to do with outlets for carcasses.
 
You are 100% all f*cking quality aren't you!?! ;)


Blue or orange? Lest we ever show up together...
For the record, blue is absolutely deserving of multiple thrashings. Orange on the other hand is rather dashing and I will not be responsible for my actions if I see anyone wearing it :rofl:
 
Yes but my frustration and bitterness is towards the shooting organisations who could, and should, have handled this so much differently.

And I also find the ‘I’m alright Jack’ brigade hugely frustrating. A lot of people on this site can, perhaps understandably, not see past the world of stalking. There’s a whole lot of other shooting that goes on out there and will be far more affected by a lead ban.
This lead ban has been on the card for donkeys years, that’s the reason I went into copper all those years ago!

but I’m beginning to run out of sympathy for those who paid no attention to the rumblings on the grapevine, who are now moaning.

those who thought forward like myself are and will carry on regardless hassle free!

remember there’s no smoke without fire 🔥
 
This lead ban has been on the card for donkeys years, that’s the reason I went into copper all those years ago!

but I’m beginning to run out of sympathy for those who paid no attention to the rumblings on the grapevine, who are now moaning.

those who thought forward like myself are and will carry on regardless hassle free!

remember there’s no smoke without fire 🔥
As you've seen from the thread, I'm swapping over, however 'rumblings on the grapevine' is one thing, a 5yr unilateral decision by the organisations who were supposed to be fighting for lead (LAG members such as BASC) is another.

And then there's a Government review in the middle of Brexit/a global epidemic/lockdown/economic catastrophe.
I thought they had enough on their plate. so this stinks of
"Public Covid Inquiry you say?? OOOH- LOOK over there- minority group to throw under bus"
&
"Carrie's turned it off until I do something meaningless to appease her and distract attention from the dead tiger at her zoo".
 
My current set up is

around 3-4000 rifle bullets sat in cupboard that will become useless and valueless

10-12000 lead and jacketed .357 bullets that will become useless and valueless (bar the scrap for the cast ones)

About 3000 loaded round in various calibres that will become the same.

just shy of 10kg of powder that I will likely have to change as it will be too slow for lighter lead free bullets

25-45 that will become redundant as it won't drive a lead free fast enough to be humane

.22 WMR semi that i will have to sell as it won't cycle light lead free bullets, if i can get anything for it

.357 LBR that will become redundant and valueless as lead free bullets are not a cost effective or easily accessible option

.357 underlever the same

0.22 hornet that will lose its value and become redundant as it won't drive lead free fast enough or stabilise longer lead bullets.

0.22 LR that won't be able to shoot subsonic and may not work with the one lead free option my RFD has sat on the shelf, will probably become redundant.

0.22 LBP again pretty much redundant and valueless without lead

1:14 0.223AI that will need to be rebarreled to shoot lead free

Oh, all my target rifles that will no longer be able to be shot at Bisley as you can't use monometal there..........

but when they do change that its redoing all my load development for 9 guns, fantastic!!!!

So yes, I am hacked off and bitter that our org's have thrown the rest of the sport under the bus so that a few stalkers can continue to send meat to the EU rather than developing the domestic market, or at the very least dealing with the alleged food safety issue rather than bringing the alleged environmental impact into it - effectively putting the last nail in the coffin for anyone using lead for quarry entering the food chain or even target use.


I've spent 2 nights this week shooting rabbits from a tower with a 0.223 that are hammering a winter barley crop, shots ranging from 40-200+ yards as that particular location it is the most effective and safest way of controlling numbers coming on to the crop from the solar farm next door. This just wont work with non copper bullets if there is any wind at all. I do a hare cull on one farm on top of a hill, head shots 100-200 yards off sticks again with 0.223, always done November and December and its always 10-20 mph plus wind there at that time of year, won't work with copper.

But hey, copper bullets work ok for deer so I guess its not a problem really and I need to just suck it up. Thanks for the support brother.
I have sympathy with this. I also hold a large amount of components for fairly large scale pest control. I do approx 1000 rounds a year through the .222rem, and certainly hold at least that many bullets which are waiting to be loaded.

I shoot far less deer, so that is not too much of an issue but I still hold a coupla hundred lead bullets for that application. And then a fairish stock of 6mm bullets for when I use a different rifle for foxes in windy conditions.

I expect I will get through them all before any formal ban comes in but I still dislike the prospect of what seems disproportionate and unfair to the masses, relatively speaking.

I do think the inevitable will pass though by the sounds of it but I am still not moving over to non lead yet. I will do so if forced but it will be a last minute job.

Have you tried the Nosler non lead ballistic tips? They are available in .204 thru 6.5mm. Apparently the same performance if Nosler's blurb is to be believed, although I should imagine it is as useful as their BC claims on various bullets. I expect they are more expensive but maybe they will reduce in time and with competition from others.

It is the .22LR I am genuinely concerned about. Will we end up shooting copper at supersonic speeds making either the HMR/WMR redundant, even with NTX or vice versa, the magnum rimfires will be used still but nobody will bother with the .22LR. I mean its main party trick is cheap, accurate short range and silent. If that changes, what is the case use?

I remain to be convinced that copper is better for deer but I can see that it will be ok to use even if not as versatile in a variety of ways. No issue with food chains or GD's demanding non toxic to be used. That is their prerogative but I don't think it should be foisted on to others who shoot for themselves or on their own land.

With basically no decent representation from anyone with any balls, clout or logic, we just have to make the best of it, whatever that is.
 
My current set up is

around 3-4000 rifle bullets sat in cupboard that will become useless and valueless

10-12000 lead and jacketed .357 bullets that will become useless and valueless (bar the scrap for the cast ones)

About 3000 loaded round in various calibres that will become the same.

just shy of 10kg of powder that I will likely have to change as it will be too slow for lighter lead free bullets

25-45 that will become redundant as it won't drive a lead free fast enough to be humane

.22 WMR semi that i will have to sell as it won't cycle light lead free bullets, if i can get anything for it

.357 LBR that will become redundant and valueless as lead free bullets are not a cost effective or easily accessible option

.357 underlever the same

0.22 hornet that will lose its value and become redundant as it won't drive lead free fast enough or stabilise longer lead bullets.

0.22 LR that won't be able to shoot subsonic and may not work with the one lead free option my RFD has sat on the shelf, will probably become redundant.

0.22 LBP again pretty much redundant and valueless without lead

1:14 0.223AI that will need to be rebarreled to shoot lead free

Oh, all my target rifles that will no longer be able to be shot at Bisley as you can't use monometal there..........

but when they do change that its redoing all my load development for 9 guns, fantastic!!!!

So yes, I am hacked off and bitter that our org's have thrown the rest of the sport under the bus so that a few stalkers can continue to send meat to the EU rather than developing the domestic market, or at the very least dealing with the alleged food safety issue rather than bringing the alleged environmental impact into it - effectively putting the last nail in the coffin for anyone using lead for quarry entering the food chain or even target use.


I've spent 2 nights this week shooting rabbits from a tower with a 0.223 that are hammering a winter barley crop, shots ranging from 40-200+ yards as that particular location it is the most effective and safest way of controlling numbers coming on to the crop from the solar farm next door. This just wont work with non copper bullets if there is any wind at all. I do a hare cull on one farm on top of a hill, head shots 100-200 yards off sticks again with 0.223, always done November and December and its always 10-20 mph plus wind there at that time of year, won't work with copper.

But hey, copper bullets work ok for deer so I guess its not a problem really and I need to just suck it up. Thanks for the support brother.
I feel sorry for you. But, reality is exactly that . The old saying involving locking gates after the horse has bolted seems to apply to this disappointment you feel.
Kindest regards, Olaf
 
Agreed. Nought non-toxic about it.

Many's the farmer who has copper-poisoned his sheep by serving them cattle-feed.

Copper can be toxic to sheep at only 15ppm.
The alternative perspective is that copper deficiency also exists, however lead deficiency does not. There is a difference between a trace element that can be toxic in excess and an exclusively toxic heavy metal. To represent both as being the same is clearly ridiculous.
 
The alternative perspective is that copper deficiency also exists, however lead deficiency does not. There is a difference between a trace element that can be toxic in excess and an exclusively toxic heavy metal. To represent both as being the same is clearly ridiculous.
To continue to describe copper as non-toxic is also, to use your words, clearly ridiculous.
 
No. Just call it copper.

The 'non-toxic' label is self-congratulatory, virtue-signalling inaccurate nonsense. Or, in your language, "clearly ridiculous".
Jeez you would have thought I had dropped a major faux pas such as calling a bullet a head!! Pedantry aside, I am sure that most will concede that copper is relatively less toxic than lead. The non toxic nomenclature is only a marketing ploy to try to clarify the rationale behind their use, rather than being an absolute reflection of the LD50 of a given material.
 
I feel sorry for you. But, reality is exactly that . The old saying involving locking gates after the horse has bolted seems to apply to this disappointment you feel.
Kindest regards, Olaf
Not really as there was supposed to be a 5 year grace period.....
 
Jeez you would have thought I had dropped a major faux pas such as calling a bullet a head!! Pedantry aside, I am sure that most will concede that copper is relatively less toxic than lead. The non toxic nomenclature is only a marketing ploy to try to clarify the rationale behind their use, rather than being an absolute reflection of the LD50 of a given material.
Surely 'copper' is a sufficiently good descriptor? One doesn't need to call it 'copper which is relatively less toxic than lead' or 'copper please don't ban shooting'. It is just 'copper'. There's enough Stockholm-syndrome shooters already, without us displaying the same simpering insecurity in the labelling of our bullets.

Carl 'mildly-toxic in-defence-of-shooting' Williams
 
Surely 'copper' is a sufficiently good descriptor? One doesn't need to call it 'copper which is relatively less toxic than lead' or 'copper please don't ban shooting'. It is just 'copper'. There's enough Stockholm-syndrome shooters already, without us displaying the same simpering insecurity in the labelling of our bullets.

Carl 'mildly-toxic in-defence-of-shooting' Williams
I just say non-lead.
 
Back
Top