Game dealer not accepting lead shot carcasses

[Selous]

So getting away from if they will kill a deer or not. Have any of you guys that have shot alot of lead free bullets had any issues with the bullets retaining lots of energy on exiting a deer and ricochets.

Nope, a backstop is needed like with lead. you can get occasional ricochets with any bullet and copper seems no better or worse to me. I had some cracking sounding ricochets with 6.5mm Amax in the past.

 

[Leec6.5]

This 100%

But the copper chaps never head shoot, and only do perfect heart shots

Ask the lads who are killing high hundreds of deer, the ghillies and contractors what's better, ask the rangers what they use in their own rifles.

Fkn

I don’t have time to faff about waiting for perfect shots, if o can get a bullet in the front end I’m gonna send it, I want to be killing it and onto the next!

as for head shooting, can’t be arsed I’m not that desperate for the extra 25p/kg at the dealer

 

[StephenToast]

Nope, a backstop is needed like with lead. you can get occasional ricochets with any bullet and copper seems no better or worse to me. I had some cracking sounding ricochets with 6.5mm Amax in the past.

I watched the BDS webinar doodaddy with Andrew Venables who mentioned ricochet, he said that the audible ricochets aren't the ones you have to worry about as they no longer have gyroscopic stability and their energy and flight path is relatively short. I'm sure he said that once the sound has finished they have come to rest. Or I may have imagined that bit.

I'm soooo paranoid about ricochet and pass up quite a lot of shots that I think about after and would moat likely have been safe but I'd rather it be that way around than the other. Especially given my topography here, and when the weather is dry the ground is like a rock. and when it's wet it's full of bloody great big flints.

I don't shoot any differently regarding backstop with lead or non lead but I can understand how having a bigger lump of metal flying out of the back of the deer might be more worrying to some people. For me. With regards to backstop I always work on the basis that I am going to miss so I guess you imagine that the bullet, on striking the dirt has the same weight made of lead or copper, and you can't guarantee that even varminting fagmenty bullets will break up.

I was terrible at maths and physics at school so a lot of ballistics stuff goes over my head but it would be useful for someone to fully address the difference in ricochet between lead and non lead ammo, demonstrating how ricochet works and what it means for a monolithic bullet versus other types of bullet design.

 

[StephenToast]

Like Ranger22? He spoke very highly of his experience of over 1500 deer shot with copper back in 2014. I don't know how many he has accounted for now 7 years further on...

Lead free (copper) bullets

just my 2p ( i have been shooting copper ammo for 2 years) If you want good results go down at least 20% bullet weight, ie if you shoot 150gr 308,in copper use 130gr Andy7mm

www.thestalkingdirectory.co.uk

Alan

The person that recommended RWS HIT to me is a Wildlife Ranger. He uses non-lead at work and privately.

 

[1894]

No disrespect intended but why hold that much stock?

really there is no one else to blame but yourself for the financial outlay.

personally I hold 100- 200 of each calibre that’s it and roll them up as I need them.

Because if you’ve been at it for a while you understand the major annoyance of lot to lot variation, inability to get your required component or the savings in buying in bulk. This based on experience

 

[Hayduke]

Before is spend a fortune.
Who makes the best factory copper ammo?
Fox?
Barnes TTSX?
Are there any others

 

[Sharpie]

The person that recommended RWS HIT to me is a Wildlife Ranger. He uses non-lead at work and privately.

The RWS Evo Green is an interesting bullet. A partition type of structure, expanding/fragmenting thin front jacket. Thicker rear jacket section and partition for penetration. And it is made of, not copper, but expensive Tin !

Looks expensive to make.

No drive bands required, must help BC.

Detailed ballistics for their loaded ammo are provided. The Evo Green is claimed to remain effective at long ranges.

RWS Evolution Green 6.5x55

Thinking of trying the above in my Tikka T3X for roe and muntjac. I'd appreciate hearing from anyone who has used these, as at 6.0grams / 93 grains they seem light to me, even for a lead free round,

www.thestalkingdirectory.co.uk

Short Rifle Evolution Green

RWS Evolution Green | RWS Ammunition

Excellent stopping power, especially at longer ranges: RWS EVOLUTION GREEN is a lead-free part fragmentation bullet. Lean more here!

rws-ammunition.com

Density of lead: 11340 kg/m^3

Copper 8940

Brass 8520

Tin 7280

Relative hardnesses: Lead 1.5, Tin 1.5, Copper 3.0

Some random UK internet prices. .308 Evo Green 138 grains £54/20

.308 RWS HIT 165 grains £48

Fox Classic Hunter .308 £46.50

Federal Premium .308 Nosler Partition (lead) 150 grains £43/20

So not really so expensive, only 55p more per round, compared with a premium lead one.

 

[Leec6.5]

If your

Before is spend a fortune.
Who makes the best factory copper ammo?
Fox?
Barnes TTSX?
Are there any others

If looking for factory the fox is good, been using to for about 2 years and I’m very happy with the results.

i have a couple of friends who are reloading the fox and are also getting good results.

personally I’m going back to ttsx and that’s purely because I’m going back to reloading.

 

[Dunwaters]

Hold the line soldier, we've got these copper fruits on the run

Not hardly, I’m dug in and head down waiting for you guys to run out of ammunition, after 17 pages it can’t take much longer.....can it?

 

[Leec6.5]

I’m ringing round tomorrow see if I can’t get some more. Barnes, I feel there’s gonna be a supply shortage Very soon

 

[gixer1]

If your

If looking for factory the fox is good, been using to for about 2 years and I’m very happy with the results.

i have a couple of friends who are reloading the fox and are also getting good results.

personally I’m going back to ttsx and that’s purely because I’m going back to reloading.

You can buy fox heads to reload as well Lee...

 

[countrryboy]

I can’t compare to lead core as I have only neck shot with mono metal. And only a few with that when needs must. I am not sure if lead core could do any better than the GMX and TTSX I have used on both Roe and Fallow bucks and does. A very small sample, but FWIW each time there has only been skin and soft tissues left attaching the head. The neck/vertebrae were completely severed.

Alan

Cheers Alan

I'll have to get some and have an experiment.
Been meaning to take up home loading anyway for a few years this might be the boot up the Erse I need.

 

[Alantoo]

Before is spend a fortune.
Who makes the best factory copper ammo?
Fox?
Barnes TTSX?
Are there any others

Just like lead core there are different types of lead free bullets and they may not all work in your rifle.

I reload and have managed to get all of them down below MOA with 5 shot groups.

I have only bought a couple of boxes of 150gr GMX factory which produced similar sub MOA groups to the 165gr SST factory I had used. They were both half the size of the groups I got from the 150gr factory SST.

The big choice would be between frangible, fragmenting or mono metal expanding petal.

Probably your best bet would be to give Edinburgh Rifles a telephone call and have a chat. Much quicker to discuss your type of shooting, quarry, range etc and what chambering of you rifle and twist of your barrel. And let them advise from there.

Alan

 

[Leec6.5]

You can buy fox heads to reload as well Lee...

That’s a plan B if I can’t get any more Barnes and when I get my ticket back from 1-4-1 the 7x57 will be eating peregrine 139gn.

speaking about that I’m off to get me bench sorted

 

[Heym SR20]

I watched the BDS webinar doodaddy with Andrew Venables who mentioned ricochet, he said that the audible ricochets aren't the ones you have to worry about as they no longer have gyroscopic stability and their energy and flight path is relatively short. I'm sure he said that once the sound has finished they have come to rest. Or I may have imagined that bit.

I'm soooo paranoid about ricochet and pass up quite a lot of shots that I think about after and would moat likely have been safe but I'd rather it be that way around than the other. Especially given my topography here, and when the weather is dry the ground is like a rock. and when it's wet it's full of bloody great big flints.

I don't shoot any differently regarding backstop with lead or non lead but I can understand how having a bigger lump of metal flying out of the back of the deer might be more worrying to some people. For me. With regards to backstop I always work on the basis that I am going to miss so I guess you imagine that the bullet, on striking the dirt has the same weight made of lead or copper, and you can't guarantee that even varminting fagmenty bullets will break up.

I was terrible at maths and physics at school so a lot of ballistics stuff goes over my head but it would be useful for someone to fully address the difference in ricochet between lead and non lead ammo, demonstrating how ricochet works and what it means for a monolithic bullet versus other types of bullet design.

My reckoning is that you want a bullet to go through a deer in a straight line and then hit the ground and continue in a straight line. My experience to date of copper monolithic bullets is they punch through the deer in a straight line and then punch into the ground.

Ricochet on the ground is very much a question of angles. If you are on flat ground that is also stony and tends to go hard, you need to give serious thought to using elevated platforms, high seats etc. Or know your ground really well and know exactly where you safe shots are from and where you can gain an extra few feet. Often just shooting from a standing position into rising ground gives you enough backstop - where as a prone off bipod would not.