Vehicle insurance and declaring the carry of guns ammo.

[captain jon]

I carry 60 dive tanks a week . just need a sticker to be legal

 

[Sinistral]

Social domestic pleasure and business journeys

If you'd made this clear in your OP the replies would probably have been more concise? . .

 

[sikamalc]

If you are using your vehicle for business, as in semi or professional stalking and taking clients, you need to make sure you tell the insurance company you are carrying firearms at certain times. I have personally never had an issue getting insurance for this. But I wouldnt mind betting there are a few who do not insure their vehicle for business, part time or not.
Although I always inform them that I am a pro deer stalker, they do not have this occupation on their system. So the nearest one is Gamekeeper, which seems to keep them all happy.

 

[deerly departed]

Im surprised it even came up, ive got the same cover on my car and never been asked about firearms and ammunition.

The insurer places the onus on YOU to declare ALL material facts. Failure on your part allows them to apply a penalty in the event of a loss EVEN if the loss has no relevance to the actual claim.

Its called having your cake and eating it.

Holding firearms... especially with home based insurances...... is a likely Material Fact and other policy types such as car insurance may also be a factor too.

Holding guns and a 300 bar surface air tanks are definitely factors you SHOULD declare to CYOA.

 

[Oracle]

This is the specific exclusion shown within my vehicle policy.

The use of your vehicle principally used for the carriage, transportation or delivery of hazardous goods.

From the UK Gov website, they list ammunition as dangerous goods, (hazardous?) however it states:

You do not need to follow all the normal packaging and labelling regulations, and you do not need a dangerous goods safety adviser if you’re transporting ‘limited quantities’ of some dangerous goods.

“Principally used” and “limited quantities” are the key here, therefore I don’t feel the need to inform my insurance provider

 

[Morkai]

The insurer places the onus on YOU to declare ALL material facts. Failure on your part allows them to apply a penalty in the event of a loss EVEN if the loss has no relevance to the actual claim.

Its called having your cake and eating it.

Holding firearms... especially with home based insurances...... is a likely Material Fact and other policy types such as car insurance may also be a factor too.

Holding guns and a 300 bar surface air tanks are definitely factors you SHOULD declare to CYOA.

Depends on the company, you could be on the phone for hours reeling off a list of possibilities, its just not how it works, its easier to just check the T&Cs of the insurers.

 

[deerly departed]

I agree re KISS but the issue is one of ensuring you declare what MIGHT be a material fact.
Firearms.... 300 bar dive tanks ....ammo or propellants etc ARE factors you know are salient.

Whether an underwriter will wish to accept, refuse or modify their cover is up to them and what they consider to be a MF WILL NOT be in T&Cs as suggested by another poster. I repeat, an insurer puts the total onus on you to declare any MFs and they state if you are unsure if something is a MF then say so.

You do not need to go into great detail unless the underwriter asks for it. Even then, KISS is your friend.

Dive bottles are a very good example. If 300 bar goes off at home or in transit then it is a very big material risk. Telling them you are carrying a scuba tank usually doesnt raise an eyebrow even though 300bar failing would be catastrophic in an accident or fire plus puts other in severe danger such as fire brigade. If they choose to not be educated re potentials then thats there look out.

A lot of insurance companies will not insure firearms. A lot will. But what they will cover and how they do it can differ so you need to declare and ssk questions.

Do not allow an insure to wriggle out because you 'Forgot' to mention firearms, ammo, guns dive tanks etc. It will save you an awful lot of trouble later.

 

[deerly departed]

This is the specific exclusion shown within my vehicle policy.

The use of your vehicle principally used for the carriage, transportation or delivery of hazardous goods.

From the UK Gov website, they list ammunition as dangerous goods, (hazardous?) however it states:

You do not need to follow all the normal packaging and labelling regulations, and you do not need a dangerous goods safety adviser if you’re transporting ‘limited quantities’ of some dangerous goods.

“Principally used” and “limited quantities” are the key here, therefore I don’t feel the need to inform my insurance provider

Then you are asking for trouble. The UK Govt does not determine what an insurer considers as an underwriting issue that influences their acceptance of a risk, the premium they charge to accept that risk or any terms conditions etc. that they will apply. Its a private contract and as such, it does not limit them to what another organisation applies as a definition. Your only defence as a private individual is if you cannot reasonably be expected to know the potential for risk if it would take a specislist knowledge to be aware. To make it clear... what an insurer considers to be a hazard is not the same as others. One insurer may consider ammo or scuba to be a hazard. Another may not. You can't second guess and as stated, ANY insurance policy puts the total weight of declaration on YOU. Now that will be in their documentation/propsal form. Its you who are proposing the risk. Its up to you to declare. If you dont, you will get shafted. I have seen it happen many times.....

 

[deerly departed]

Depends on the company, you could be on the phone for hours reeling off a list of possibilities, its just not how it works, its easier to just check the T&Cs of the insurers.

I disagree. The list of possibilities is not endless. You know firearms and ammo or scuba gear or rocket fuel or chemicals etc. are a potential and its up to you to declare.

99.99% of the average UK citizens do not read T&Cs......and they are generalist as oppossed specific unless the insurer states or indicates examples in its literature.

Its up to you to declare anything that might influence an underwriters perception/understanding and yours alone.

Declaring material facts IS EXACTLY how it works and thats at your feet.

 

[Morkai]

I disagree. The list of possibilities is not endless. You know firearms and ammo or scuba gear or rocket fuel or chemicals etc. are a potential and its up to you to declare.

99.99% of the average UK citizens do not read T&Cs......and they are generalist as oppossed specific unless the insurer states or indicates examples in its literature.

Its up to you to declare anything that might influence an underwriters perception/understanding and yours alone.

Declaring material facts IS EXACTLY how it works and thats at your feet.

Maybe in business and commercial but not SDP, the lists are endless and subjective.

 

[Grannysmith]

That type of conversation worries me frankly who initiated the firearms and ammo questionis?

 

[deerly departed]

Maybe in business and commercial but not SDP, the lists are endless and subjective.

No no no. You are not seeing the bigger picture here. SDP to/from a perm place of work or the various types of business use is totally different to the basic policy and contract terms to DECLARE ALL MATERIAL FACTS. Use is such a fact that will be asked on the proposal. Do you hold firearms wont. Its up to you to state this. Ditto scuba. Read a proposal form.

 

[Morkai]

No no no. You are not seeing the bigger picture here. SDP to/from a perm place of work or the various types of business use is totally different to the basic policy and contract terms to DECLARE ALL MATERIAL FACTS. Use is such a fact that will be asked on the proposal. Do you hold firearms wont. Its up to you to state this. Ditto scuba. Read a proposal form.

Ok, dont worry about it.
Enjoy your day.

 

[deerly departed]

Ok, dont worry about it.
Enjoy your day.

I aint. Its up to you what you do but if you cant grasp it then you cant complain if it goes tits up.

Rough definition on google gawd bless it :

"The duty of disclosure arises because the facts relevant to the estimation of the risk are most likely to be within the knowledge of the insured and the insurer therefore has to rely upon him to disclose matters material to that risk. The duty extends to the insurer as well as to the insured : Carter v. Boehm.1 Jul 2017"

 

[Hornet 6]

Will we have to declare we have a tank full of highly flammable petrol bolted underneath next?

No, we have been saved from that fate post september 1st

Neil.

 

[NullMac]

Ahem. So following the obvious disagreement viewpoints on vehicle insurance and carriage of noxious items let us now look through the eyes of our favourite insurance gangster broker, at the strange world of House Insurance……
“Now let me see sir, so. you have this room with many a few kilos of Nitro Cellulose, Err, isn’t that an explosive sir? No? So it is merely an accelerant? Just asking out of curiosity - what does it accelerate? Ah, burning. Good, fine, super. And you keep the all those tubs together on your shelf, just like little ducks in a row? Right, super, great, okaaayyyy….
And may I ask what are these Primer things? Gosh aren’t they small and so shiny? Oh - so they are not accelerants - great, super, that is a great relief, oh but they are, sorry? Did you really say explosive? Gosh, and did I catch you right just now, did you actually say you have thousands of a few loaded bullets too…… AND YOU HAVE GUNS!!!!!!!!! Next!!
Just saying….

Well, its not up to us to imagine all the things they may be interested in, it is up to them to put clauses in that drive disclosure of what they consider to be potential risks. When I have applied online for insurance quotes there has never been a question where I have felt I should disclose firearms/ammunition. So their problem not mine.

 

[Morkai]

Well, its not up to us to imagine all the things they may be interested in, it is up to them to put clauses in that drive disclosure of what they consider to be potential risks. When I have applied online for insurance quotes there has never been a question where I have felt I should disclose firearms/ammunition. So their problem not mine.

Exactly, they ask about car mods which I declare, but they dont ask any other specifics, how am I to know if they class a shotgun as a risk because I dont class it as a risk. A screaming toddler in the back is more of a risk and they dont make you declare the type of passengers you have.

 

[JTO]

Accidents do happen. A few years ago a chap was coming off the MoD ranges at Lulworth, was distracted by his young dog as he shut the range gate and took the magazine out but left a round up the spout. Pulled up at the guardhouse to sign out, the dog got exited, trod on the trigger and put a bullet through the side of the truck and into the guardhouse wall.

 

[Liveonce]

Accidents do happen. A few years ago a chap was coming off the MoD ranges at Lulworth, was distracted by his young dog as he shut the range gate and took the magazine out but left a round up the spout. Pulled up at the guardhouse to sign out, the dog got exited, trod on the trigger and put a bullet through the side of the truck and into the guardhouse wall.

Accident - an event that happens by chance or that is without apparent or deliberate cause.

Negligent - failing to take proper care over something.

You decide?

 

[J@son]

Just to share my experience...

I had to renew my insurance on the two cars I drive this week. Over the course of the last year I have joined the HAD team which works alongside my local police force. One of the HAD stipulations is that my cars are insured for "Business" use (even though the HAD team are all unpaid volunteers) but my cars are anyway so this isn't a problem. The person on the phone ran through the usual check list of usual questions to see if my circumstances had changed since the last renewal and then she asked "do you do any voluntarty work?" I don't recall ever being ask this before. I said "Yes" and she asked for details. My heart started to sink. As I started to explain, she cut across me (not impolitely but unable to disguise the surprise in her voice): "What? You mean you carry guns in the car?" "Well, yes..." I explained "...I get called by the Police out to shoot animals that have been badly injured in RTAs... I need a gun in order to do that." I explained that I also use my car to transport guns for recreational shooting - stalking, clay-pigeon and game. She asked whether the guns were in a locked safe within the vehicles. I explained that they were not - that they were transported in a slip or hard case but that these were not lockable. She was ever so nice about all this but clearly concerned and said she would need to speak to the underwriters. By this time I was feeling pretty gloomy at the prospect of what I assumed would be a big hike in my premiums.

The call back came the next day. Two more questions: Is the gun in a lockable safe inside the car? "As explained - no". When I am volunterring as part of the HAD team, do I give my gun to the Police at the scene of the accident? In other words, am I transporting guns for the Police? "Errr... no". At this point I am all but adopting the brace-position as I can sense the avalanche of bad news heading my way.

"Great! We are going to recommend switching your insurers but the good news is that we can get you exactly the same level of cover but both premiums are lower than last year. Oh yes... and on one of the policy's we've also managed to reduce the excess by £100 and throw in free recovery with Green Flag."

"Errr... really?" I dare to open my eyes. The world doesn't appear to have gone mad. Can this be true?

I am amazed but by laying all my cards on the table and using a decent broker I appear to have pulled off the impossible. I have the reassurance of knowing that I am properly covered and I've actually saved about £60 on last year's premiums. I went through A-Plan Eastleigh. I got them to insure my cars for the first time this time last year and then gave them my wife's car to insure about a month ago - again came up with a very competitive deal which included (at a small extra cost) breakdown cover.

So if anyone is having difficulties I would recommend giving them a go.

(by the way does the recommendation in this post make me an influencer?)