Lead free bullets and lung shot roe

[paulux]

Been using Fox lead free 6.5 mm 123 gr bullets lately, handloaded to 880 m/s (2890 fps).
Have found that some lung/ heart shot roe tend to run a bit too much before collapsing (60 - 100 meters) AND without a good blood trail. Not happy with that as I've had some stressful searches especially with shots taken at last light.

I don't like to shoot roe through shoulders (or neck/ head) so thinking of moving to another lead free bullet. Need some help in deciding on which option. Ideally would like a bullet that stops them in their tracks or almost (don't mind a short run with a good blood trail), with damage limited to the lung/ heart area.
Would the 6.5 lead free fragmenting type bullets do that ?

Am also considering the 308 option as I've recently bought a rifle in that chambering. Would a lead free 308 projectile be better to achieve that goal ?
Would appreciate your suggestions please.

 

[SussexShooter]

I’ve been using the Yew Tree bullets in my 243 this season and have had nothing but good results with them.

Haven’t tried them in my 6.5 yet but that’s purely down to the fact I’ve been using the 243- I will be trying them in due course though and expect the same results.

It may not be needed in your case, but the other benefit with them is they’re UK made and when developing loads I sent a PM to the developer (who is on here) to which I had a detailed answer for loads etc. Tried the sugggestions given and had clover leaf grouping first time- can’t ask for better than that!

 

[splash]

Try a different bullet apparently bullets with a rounded frontal area are better in a non lead configuration.
I’ve read the above but not used the advice yet

 

[NullMac]

Well I am just back from a couple of days at the Does and am thinking the same thing. I have been shooting copper since the start of the hind season so am just getting to grips. I have shot Red Sika and Roe (270 110gr TTSX) and while they all end up on the heather the runners used to do 30 yards or so but they now seem to be doing laps. My assumption is that as the lead is not fragmenting then a shot is only going to create damage on the path of the bullet. There will be no "savers" from fragments.

I do not like this tendency. Like you I don't really want to take neck shots or pin them through the shoulders. At the moment I am leaning towards tightening up on a high heart shot rather than my "percentage shot". Still not really happy as things will go wrong from time to time and the copper bullet in a "larger" calibre does not appear to be going to save me as it would with lead.

 

[NullMac]

Tried the sugggestions given and had clover leaf grouping first time- can’t ask for better than that!

It's not an accuracy question, its a terminal ballistics question

 

[SussexShooter]

It's not an accuracy question, its a terminal ballistics question

Of course, and as stated in my original post I’ve had nothing but good results in that sense… the loads being accurate is surely beneficial though..?

 

[Utectok]

I’ve been shooting Barnes ttsx 120gn 6.5mm (2850fps) on red, fallow and roe and have been very pleased. I don’t remember a roe moving more than 3-5m. I usually shoot through the shoulders head or neck but a couple of errant shots through the liver/back of the rib cage still dropped them on the spot. I guess I’ve shot twenty to twenty five deer with this load and been very happy.
One stag charged towards me but it was dead on its feet with a hole in the heart. One hind ran maybe 60m. I’ve shot from 50-260m
Personally I’d say it’s the best round I have shot on roe but I’d like to shoot a couple of dozen more reds before calling it on red.

 

[Heym SR20]

I have been using the Fox 130gn in 7x57. I too have found that lung shots with any bullet do tend to run, but with a reasonable blood trail.

I tend to shoot further forward and I find that the Fox doesn’t cause a lot of damage to the shoulder but they drop on the spot. Damage is much much less than a typical lead bullet.

However my favourite shot is a quartering away shot - put the bullet tight on the back of the nearside shoulder and it exits in front of the offside shoulder. It takes out the CNS as well as all the major blood vessels.

Trouble with a double lung shot is you are just causing major damage to the lungs and unless you put it through the top of the lungs you don’t cause a shock on the central Nervous System. The animal will either run, or stand until it bleeds out.

With a bullet further forward and about half way up the shockwave around the bullet is hitting all the nerves in and around the shoulder and base of the neck, and you are also hitting all the major arteries that are pumping blood to the brain - and these send a pressure hydraulic shock wave up to the brain. All of which drops the animal on the spot.

The benefit of the double lung shot is that damages very little good meat. But the animal will likely run 50 to 100 yards. It’s the traditional open hill shot where you can watch where the animal runs to.

Not so good though in woodland, unless you have a good dog.

You could try other types of bullets. Friend has been trying the Geco Zero which is a tin core bullet in his 7x57. He shot a couple of does last week and reported far too much damage to be acceptable.

I have been using the RWS HIT in 7mm - same results as the Fox.

Also tried the flat nosed 100gn Peregrine in the 243. Shot a Sika buck at 200. Bullet placement was behind shoulders. It made 30 yards with a good blood trail.

 

[Malxwal]

I've no idea why folk don't like pinning deer, it just makes sense when the priority is a dead deer without a search ? I'm sorry if that sounds a bit controversial, feel free to tell me to bugger off, but I'd rather have the deer drop on the spot.

 

[Heym SR20]

I've no idea why folk don't like pinning deer, it just makes sense when the priority is a dead deer without a search ? I'm sorry if that sounds a bit controversial, feel free to tell me to bugger off, but I'd rather have the deer drop on the spot.

Agree. And with a monolithic bullet you have a 1 to 2” diameter wound that you can cut out. With a lead bullet you have a complete mess of lots of bloodshot meat full of lead fragments which is only good for the bin.

That’s why the behind the shoulder shot has been drummed into stalkers for the last 100 or do years.

New bullets need a slight change in shot placement and they work very well.

 

[Utectok]

I would add you do need to shoot a lot of deer before calling it on a bullet. I had a couple of wierd ones on fallow early on and I was thinking bullet failure or calibre but in reality it was poor shot placement. Shoot 20-30 before you really know I’d say

 

[paulux]

I've no idea why folk don't like pinning deer, it just makes sense when the priority is a dead deer without a search ? I'm sorry if that sounds a bit controversial, feel free to tell me to bugger off, but I'd rather have the deer drop on the spot.

I understand your point , but I really enjoy those tasty shoulders. My fellow villagers whom I hunt for and distribute venison to also appreciate them. They don't like see me come with them smashed.

 

[NullMac]

Would a lead free 308 projectile be better to achieve that goal ?

Doubtful, the differences are marginal.

 

[Utectok]

I understand your point , but I really enjoy those tasty shoulders. My fellow villagers whom I hunt for and distribute venison to also appreciate them. They don't like see me come with them smashed.

I say lose a shoulder or lose the whole deer because you can’t find it? Your choice…..

 

[paulux]

I would add you do need to shoot a lot of deer before calling it on a bullet. I had a couple of wierd ones on fallow early on and I was thinking bullet failure or calibre but in reality it was poor shot placement. Shoot 20-30 before you really know I’d say

Five long searches have been enough to make up my mind.

 

[paulux]

I say lose a shoulder or lose the whole deer because you can’t find it? Your choice…..

I'm looking for an alternative to those two options, if possible.

 

[Utectok]

Five long searches have been enough to make up my mind.

Very often I will chose different shots in thick cover. Head neck shots if possible?

 

[NullMac]

I've no idea why folk don't like pinning deer, it just makes sense when the priority is a dead deer without a search ? I'm sorry if that sounds a bit controversial, feel free to tell me to bugger off, but I'd rather have the deer drop on the spot.

Well, I would rather drop them without having to smash up the whole front end to achieve that

 

[NullMac]

I say lose a shoulder or lose the whole deer because you can’t find it? Your choice…..

False choice. As I said, I find them but its a PITA. As above, I don't want to smash up the whole front end to have to stop them doing laps of the field before they fall over due to low blood pressure.

 

[Malxwal]

I understand your point , but I really enjoy those tasty shoulders. My fellow villagers whom I hunt for and distribute venison to also appreciate them. They don't like see me come with them smashed.

Sorry, but for me it's about the deer going down and out ASAP.
I eat a lot of mince