Bringing Brass back from the USA.

[andrew thoma]

My mate is travelling over from the US next month and I was wondering about the legality of him bringing some brass over for me given how difficult it is to source here at the moment. It is in stock and there is no problem to order it online and have it delivered to my mates which he then stick in his checked bags, just wondering if, it is legal and if any one has done it before.

 

[gixer1]

My mate is travelling over from the US next month and I was wondering about the legality of him bringing some brass over for me given how difficult it is to source here at the moment. It is in stock and there is no problem to order it online and have it delivered to my mates which he then stick in his checked bags, just wondering if, it is legal and if any one has done it before.

It’s a bit of a grey area this….from what I have read it’s high risk!

 

[SpikeD]

This has come up before, brass and bullets are covered by ITAR regulations and you need an export licence to bring them back. There will be numerous people who will tell you that they've done it before without issue but that won't be a defense if he is caught.

 

[MarinePMI]

Huh? I hadn't heard that brass was ITAR controlled on the US side; is it ITAR controlled on the UK side?

 

[saddler]

Huh? I hadn't heard that brass was ITAR controlled on the US side; is it ITAR controlled on the UK side?

ITAR is purely a "US side" bit of legislation

 

[saddler]

It’s a bit of a grey area this….from what I have read it’s high risk!

Grey area?? Far from it = it's a definite NO = falls well foul of the ITAR restrictions as well as other internal US Trade and Business rulings/

The ONLY brass exemption, cartridge case related, is shotshell brass as shotshell cases are named as not covered by ITAR (a bit strange all round really, as ITAR was brought about due to the "Star Wars" missile defence system - sod all to do with sporting arms)

 

[wully1234]

Grey area?? Far from it = it's a definite NO = falls well foul of the ITAR restrictions as well as other internal US Trade and Business rulings/

The ONLY brass exemption, cartridge case related, is shotshell brass as shotshell cases are named as not covered by ITAR (a bit strange all round really, as ITAR was brought about due to the "Star Wars" missile defence system - sod all to do with sporting arms)

I couldn't even order a hogue stock to a mates house in the states a few years back as I was paying from uk bank card so I had to ask him to pay for it so I'd suspect something like that might raise some sort of alarm if seen on a screen

 

[MarinePMI]

I couldn't even order a hogue stock to a mates house in the states a few years back as I was paying from uk bank card so I had to ask him to pay for it so I'd suspect something like that might raise some sort of alarm if seen on a screen

Those ITAR restrictions have since been relaxed. That was the Obama administration overreacting to some things that were going on in Iraq (NV, armor, etc. popping up in theater).

I don't think brass is ITAR controlled in the US. Probably just loaded ammunition, and only in military calibers (I would suspect). Everything else should fall under EAR due to its "dual use" category. Again, not sure, but compared to some of the stuff I deal with at work, there's no way brass should be ITAR controlled these days.

ETA: An interesting read...

ITAR Firearms Amendments - Six Important Points You Need to | JD Supra

 

[saddler]

Those ITAR restrictions have since been relaxed. That was the Obama administration overreacting to some things that were going on in Iraq (NV, armor, etc. popping up in theater).

I don't think brass is ITAR controlled in the US. Probably just loaded ammunition, and only in military calibers (I would suspect). Everything else should fall under EAR due to its "dual use" category. Again, not sure, but compared to some of the stuff I deal with at work, there's no way brass should be ITAR controlled these days.

ETA: An interesting read...

ITAR Firearms Amendments - Six Important Points You Need to | JD Supra

Any link to the newer ITAR rules??

 

[MarinePMI]

Any link to the newer ITAR rules??

That link explains some of the new rules. Only belted/linked ammunition and stuff .50 cal or larger is ITAR controlled. All else (except for the exceptions mentioned; caseless ammo, inciendiary, tracer, etc.) is EAR, but may have some export restrictions. You'd have to comb through the USML to be sure...

I want to say if it's on the EAR (and not specifically controlled) than export licenses are only needed for sale of items, and don't pertain to an individual taking it out of the US for personal use. But, I'm not a export lawyer, and didn't stay ina Holiday Inn last night, so caveat emptor.

 

[saddler]

That link explains some of the new rules. Only belted/linked ammunition and stuff .50 cal or larger is ITAR controlled. All else (except for the exceptions mentioned; caseless ammo, inciendiary, tracer, etc.) is EAR, but may have some export restrictions. You'd have to comb through the USML to be sure...

Oops - missed that in the original post
My 6.8SPC will thank you if it looks like I can get more brass for it
Will have a look later, thanks!

Now,
Any links to a genuine ex-USMC issue & export allowable XM-3 ??
I've seen the auction ones. Ouch....
Still need some swivels for my M40 clone too

 

[MarinePMI]

Oops - missed that in the original post
My 6.8SPC will thank you if it looks like I can get more brass for it
Will have a look later, thanks!

Now,
Any links to a genuine ex-USMC issue & export allowable XM-3 ??
I've seen the auction ones. Ouch....
Still need some swivels for my M40 clone too

I have no idea on the XM-3. You may want to go ask on the Hide (snipershide.com), as some of those guys are expats living abroad. The vintage sub-forum has a bunch of collectors that likely know the answer to availability and exportability.

 

[saddler]

I have no idea on the XM-3. You may want to go ask on the Hide (snipershide.com), as some of those guys are expats living abroad. The vintage sub-forum has a bunch of collectors that likely know the answer to availability and exportability.

Already on there and the M40 Forum too, to name but two

 

[gixer1]

Oops - missed that in the original post
My 6.8SPC will thank you if it looks like I can get more brass for it
Will have a look later, thanks!

Now,
Any links to a genuine ex-USMC issue & export allowable XM-3 ??
I've seen the auction ones. Ouch....
Still need some swivels for my M40 clone too

That’s why i said a grey area!

 

[MarinePMI]

That’s why i said a grey area!

I think it's been grey because it's been done by executive order (POTUS), so it changes with ever who is in the oval office. Fortunately, the recent SCOTUS ruling that agencies with unelected officials, can no longer interpret Congressional law as they see fit, and that it is unconstitutional, we'll now start to see some consistency between administrations. IF the law is too vague, then it now has to be treated as unenforceable, and Congress has to pass laws/policy that are clear and concise.

It was one of the rulings that went largely unnoticed (so-and-so vs the EPA) last year (all the ruckus was about the overturning of Roe v Wade), but has far greater impact and implications against executive overreach than most realize. Reigning in the executive power a bit, in a slow and methodical process of judicial review. It was actually a very wise and prudent way to do that, so that the change back to more constitutional standards happens slowly, and causes as little strife as possible. It was quite deft and brilliant.

 

[saddler]

I think it's been grey because it's been done by executive order (POTUS), so it changes with ever who is in the oval office. Fortunately, the recent SCOTUS ruling that agencies with unelected officials, can no longer interpret Congressional law as they see fit, and that it is unconstitutional, we'll now start to see some consistency between administrations. IF the law is too vague, then it now has to be treated as unenforceable, and Congress has to pass laws/policy that are clear and concise.

It was one of the rulings that went largely unnoticed (so-and-so vs the EPA) last year (all the ruckus was about the overturning of Roe v Wade), but has far greater impact and implications against executive overreach than most realize. Reigning in the executive power a bit, in a slow and methodical process of judicial review. It was actually a very wise and prudent way to do that, so that the change back to more constitutional standards happens slowly, and causes as little strife as possible. It was quite deft and brilliant.

With further research it may even be possible for me to have another "happy brass" purchase = though given present US shortages and prices., I doubt it will be as happy as the previous pre-ITAR purchase.
Some years ago I followed an advert in one of the paper journals - may have been Shotgun News, may have been the NRA Journal. A month or two later, and about $70 or so poorer, I was the happy owner of 1000 Lake City Match 30-06 cases, all '68 dated. They needed some cleaning, but that was one memorable brass purchase. I doubt any of the VN era LC Match stuff is still around - though no harm in checking....plus I will see if I can turn up some M118 brass for the collection.

 

[Koenig]

Having lived in the US I wouldn’t even consider bringing brass back to the UK.

I wouldn’t want to be on remand in a US prison while it was all sorted out as a terrible misunderstanding either.

Go watch American History X if you need a steer…..

 

[kenbro]

A few years back a friend in Md sent some brass, (22-250) magazines (paper) and some aerosol cans to SA.
He had no less than the FBI at his door.
They told him it was a military caliber!
Threatened him with all sorts then told him he could have his box of stuff back if he paid $$$$.
He paid up and some weeks later his box arrived back…..all it contained was the reading mags.
Ken.

 

[gixer1]

Having also lived in the states, I took back 30-06, 243, 223 and 9mm brass and bullets back with me in 2015 and never heard anything about it - although I can’t recall what the specific rules were - I was maybe just lucky….

Although I also took 4 Honda trikes with me as well….

Regards,
Gixer

 

[Heym SR20]

The US are really quite restrictive to imports and exports to and from “foreign lands”. It’s why many European brands have set up subsidiaries and manufacturing in the US to serve the US market. So the likes of Sig Sauer, Glock, Beretta, Swarovski, Mercedes Benz etc all have big factories over there.

They are particularly sensitive when anything going out could be used for strategic purposes. So I know one company whose client had a manufacturing plant in the US supply seals and bearings that are used in energy production. The client just found it too difficult to export out of the US so gave all its manufacturing to one of its European based suppliers.

I would also really question whether the embuggerance factor is really worth it. Surely brass is available this side of the Atlantic from a European manufacturer such as Norma or even PPU.