The pink dot is a spinal shot! So it should drop it!!
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Copper and blood trails
- Thread starter Siggy
- Start date
Must be because the "authorities" have decided a lot of European deer stalkers are shite shots, especially off sticks, and the only mitigation they can apply is "bigger".
This argument will go on for as long as there's stalkers having bad outcomes with copper bullets. Which is a thing, by the way.
My first experiences early last decade were appalling and I swore off copper forever.
But... like my first experiences of electric cars, Emirates, Californian wine and Japanese chicks... once bitten twice shy might result in one blocking any chance of exciting new and improved experiences, so always best to put early disappointments aside and try again.
We'll get some of these fragmenting copper bullets soon (hopefully) and I can't wait to do some proper testing. I'll be videoing outcomes. Should be a cool project.
My first experiences early last decade were appalling and I swore off copper forever.
But... like my first experiences of electric cars, Emirates, Californian wine and Japanese chicks... once bitten twice shy might result in one blocking any chance of exciting new and improved experiences, so always best to put early disappointments aside and try again.
We'll get some of these fragmenting copper bullets soon (hopefully) and I can't wait to do some proper testing. I'll be videoing outcomes. Should be a cool project.
There may be some truth to that, but since the same authorities also won't approve the use of "bigger" I'm not persuaded it's a full explanation.
It would be a mistake to think that British gun laws are in any way dictated by logic or good sense.
Norfolk Deer Search
Well-Known Member
Picture was taken 2008, he has also found some more from the archives, great times.
Ronin
Distinguished Member
This
Your issue is shot placement
Have killed a great deal of deer at ranges from near to “far” and providing the bullet is on this area severing a “pipe” you will get blood trail and almost if not immediate shut down and death
I’ve had a fair number of lead shot deer that haven’t left a trail.
I think if you hit the lungs, miss a major artery, and/or the animal is in winter coat and full of fat, you often don’t get much blood.
Norfolk Deer Search
Well-Known Member
The biggest problem is with all this, is that stalkers are looking for the perfect text book shot placement, too much thinking going on!
I do understand that some are not as experienced as others, but i treat a copper bullet exactly the same as lead and that is front and and bang!
With a barnes TTSX meat damage on a deer is less than 8oz in my personal experience!
So nothing to be concerned about.
I do understand that some are not as experienced as others, but i treat a copper bullet exactly the same as lead and that is front and and bang!
With a barnes TTSX meat damage on a deer is less than 8oz in my personal experience!
So nothing to be concerned about.
I also think people base decisions on small sample sizes and are heavily influenced by confirmation bias.
Dan Newcombe
Well-Known Member
Im a bit confused - is the consensus that copper doesn’t pass through, or that somehow it doesn’t make the deer bleed externally?
I tried 120gn TTSX in a .260 and didn’t like them but reading a bit more think I might have been pushing them too slow but they always exited.
Now on Virtus 110gn and really like them - haven’t chronographed them yet but they are sat on 45gn of RS60
I wouldn’t bother going back to lead because they are working for me.
I think that Caberslash is not wrong in his statement that copper isn’t as good as lead in the make up of a bullet - but we are figuring out how to work with that to bring the two closer together. We started out just doing the same thing with a different material and unsurprisingly it didn’t work but now the construction is changing and the understanding of how to use them (fast and light) means that we seem to be turning a corner.
Now - if they weren’t so expensive that would also be nice!
I tried 120gn TTSX in a .260 and didn’t like them but reading a bit more think I might have been pushing them too slow but they always exited.
Now on Virtus 110gn and really like them - haven’t chronographed them yet but they are sat on 45gn of RS60
I wouldn’t bother going back to lead because they are working for me.
I think that Caberslash is not wrong in his statement that copper isn’t as good as lead in the make up of a bullet - but we are figuring out how to work with that to bring the two closer together. We started out just doing the same thing with a different material and unsurprisingly it didn’t work but now the construction is changing and the understanding of how to use them (fast and light) means that we seem to be turning a corner.
Now - if they weren’t so expensive that would also be nice!
Norfolk Deer Search
Well-Known Member
When i went onto copper straight off the cuff 3 boxes of 120gn ttsx was on its way from Cliffs gunsmithing in Utah, took me 1 box to get the rifle to shoot straight (was a proper slag) the other 2 boxes dead deer, was so impressed never looked back.
By the time i had shot those 2 boxes on red, fallow, muntjac, roe and cwd and the results were all near on the same, i knew i wasn’t going back to lead.
The problem with me is, if i do something i jump in balls deep and make it work regardless of the time or financial cost!
So when people roll their eyes when i jump on my soap box about copper, it’s because i do actually know what i am talking about!
5 calibres, 6.5x55 - 300 win mag copper bullets from 120gn all the way up to 200gn, shot and efficiently killed deer with them all.
mike308
Well-Known Member
I have no problems with copper I use fox 150 gr in a.308 if you hit them in the right place they will leave a good blood trail and if they don't drop on the spot they won't run far. Yes I do get a few runners but that is usually my fault with shot placement not the bullet.
Here's a picture of a roe buck shot earlier this year.
Here's a picture of a roe buck shot earlier this year.
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Siggy
Well-Known Member
Agree with the shot placement, but I don't think it's the entire story, SSTs used to leave an exit wound the size of your palm, with the Fox, its hardly larger than the entry so I think there's a drainage issue. I'll try and put some down with the shot further forward and see how I get on.
Overlay
Well-Known Member
let us know how it goes please
8x57
Distinguished Member
Out of curiosity I asked a forest ranger friend about 9 or 10 years ago how their trial of non-lead ammunition was going. His reply at that time was "your dog will get a lot of exercise". I understand that they abandoned the trial shortly after.
They now use copper/ non-lead all the time and I believe are satisfied with it, so clearly non-lead ammunition has changed a bit since then.
Norfolk Deer Search
Well-Known Member
Yes but an SST like a grenade!
If you want a blood trail thats the bullet to use, as well as horrifying meat damage!
A ttsx if you have got it right should be nice neat entry and exit the size of 50p bit
I’ll never use SST on a food animal again.Yes but an SST like a grenade!
If you want a blood trail thats the bullet to use, as well as horrifying meat damage!
A ttsx if you have got it right should be nice neat entry and exit the size of 50p bit
Worst damage I’ve ever seen, by a very long way. Seemed to puncture the rumen with any chest shot, regardless of placement.
Norfolk Deer Search
Well-Known Member
The only bullet i have not shot the full performance 100 test that i personally do!
SSTs have their place but there are very few in the UK that need their performance as they are designed to perform optimally at 300 yards plus. Otherwise head shots only !! I have also seen terrible meat damage with them in the past and won’t use them any more.
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