Personal experience in my county say they do respect what BASC have to say, now ! Lancs now rely a lot on BASC headed info sheets . Have to say its got noticeably better regards being "reasonable"
BASC calls for independent regulatory body for firearms licensing
- Thread starter Conor O'Gorman
- Start date
I'm pretty sure the chief constables, FLU's and all the decision makers in this process are already very aware of what the problems are. Would it not be more constructive to give ideas for solutions? Forgive me if the BA SC have included suggestions within there response.
Norfolk Deer Search
Well-Known Member
There are casualties in war That is inevitable, the police need to prioritise those already in the system before they let More into an already overstretched system!
I’m sorry but I am mercenary, from my perspective I don’t shoot targets I don’t see the point in it, so therefore, when my license in a few months goes in for renewal, I will have enough ammunition to see me out, I Home load so it’s not a problem. I have enough powder, primers, bullets to do whatever I have to do, when I run out I run out I’ll just go fishing instead it’s not a problem, it doesn’t bother me. I’ve done enough, killing and paper punching the last a lifetime!
As long as they submit me the paperwork in good time I will get it to them, Bristol fashion in good time and if they’re on the drag and I am legal, I don’t see a problem in it.
Stalker62
Well-Known Member
It would be an interesting project, to ask your local FLD for an increase in your ammunition allowance, on the very basis that their inability to process the damn thing, is insufficiently efficient, for your current allowance...
On allowances and I know it's a 'post code' lottery.
I have 1,000 x .22 and most CF are at 300.
However, in a previous Force area...
When I was first granted a slot for a .416 it came back with an allowance of twenty (20) rounds...
A combination of a FLM who did not know his business and the UK legislation.
That FLM retired and the new chap (without me asking) just raised it to 120 (ironically more than I can afford!)
sikamalc
Administrator
This whole issue started many years back, this is nothing new, in my opinion.
For a very short period of time I was invited to sit on a county police panel to discuss the Firearms issue. This was prior to the pandemic, and I have not attended since. Now the on line applications are in place, which are not that user friendly in my opinion. It was also discussed in cutting all phone lines to the Firearms offices. Something I was also against. Many FA owners are not good with IT, vast numbers are of the non computer age and communication by phone over certain issues must be kept. I am happy to see that Kent has kept this in place. All be it on a limited time scale.
For a start all the FAC guidelines are sent down from Whitehall, and each Chief Constable can apply these as he/she see's fit. So there is the start of differences between each police force. The government insurers are also no doubt involved with any decisions or guidelines as well.
One failing that I have noticed over many years of being responsible for a large firearms collection is that whenever one applies for an FAC or SGC you are not requested to have public liability insurance. I find this staggering, as most, if not all European countries require this.
Also on completion of the whole FAC system being activated many years back, the software I was told did not include all the calibers. Thus causing huge issues when people renewed or requested an addition to their licence. We are now at a stage where most if not all constabularies are struggling to carry out firearms renewals or applications in a decent time.
Setting up an independent organisation is not to me the way forward. It would require a huge change in any organisation being responsible for personal data, and peoples ownership and medical records. Any new applicant is checked with Interpol, NCA etc. This takes time and money. With cutbacks this is proving unworkable for most police forces.
It would in my mind be far better for the amount paid for a licence to be increased to a level that gives a service we deserve. After all its not that much money for 5 years. It needs a grass root reboot, with rules laid down that all forces abide by, and appropriate training for FEO's.
I used to take a number of new FEO's around the collection I was responsible for, to give them some understanding of what they could expect to see when visiting a FA owner. Many did not have a clue what they were looking for. Things may have changed since then, but the more I hear, the less I am inclined to think that very little has changed.
Until the right person sorts all of this mess out, it will continue to grow and cause more issues. Another body to undertake this is NOT something I would personally agree with.
For a very short period of time I was invited to sit on a county police panel to discuss the Firearms issue. This was prior to the pandemic, and I have not attended since. Now the on line applications are in place, which are not that user friendly in my opinion. It was also discussed in cutting all phone lines to the Firearms offices. Something I was also against. Many FA owners are not good with IT, vast numbers are of the non computer age and communication by phone over certain issues must be kept. I am happy to see that Kent has kept this in place. All be it on a limited time scale.
For a start all the FAC guidelines are sent down from Whitehall, and each Chief Constable can apply these as he/she see's fit. So there is the start of differences between each police force. The government insurers are also no doubt involved with any decisions or guidelines as well.
One failing that I have noticed over many years of being responsible for a large firearms collection is that whenever one applies for an FAC or SGC you are not requested to have public liability insurance. I find this staggering, as most, if not all European countries require this.
Also on completion of the whole FAC system being activated many years back, the software I was told did not include all the calibers. Thus causing huge issues when people renewed or requested an addition to their licence. We are now at a stage where most if not all constabularies are struggling to carry out firearms renewals or applications in a decent time.
Setting up an independent organisation is not to me the way forward. It would require a huge change in any organisation being responsible for personal data, and peoples ownership and medical records. Any new applicant is checked with Interpol, NCA etc. This takes time and money. With cutbacks this is proving unworkable for most police forces.
It would in my mind be far better for the amount paid for a licence to be increased to a level that gives a service we deserve. After all its not that much money for 5 years. It needs a grass root reboot, with rules laid down that all forces abide by, and appropriate training for FEO's.
I used to take a number of new FEO's around the collection I was responsible for, to give them some understanding of what they could expect to see when visiting a FA owner. Many did not have a clue what they were looking for. Things may have changed since then, but the more I hear, the less I am inclined to think that very little has changed.
Until the right person sorts all of this mess out, it will continue to grow and cause more issues. Another body to undertake this is NOT something I would personally agree with.
Lets take a quick look at the DVLA idea
- Massive national office space needed
- Who carries out security checks/land visits - Now we need a county office
- Who carries out interviews for initial grants and over 70's - Again, locally trained staff
- If they're going to be civil servants, paye, maternity and sickness cover, holidays, training, pensions, expenses etc
- FLD answerable to a professional body for performance and standards
- 10 year tickets, eased in with varying length of current tickets to flatten the curve
- 1-1 variation (same calibre) done at an RFD or via an app and authorisation code
- Moderators off ticket
- The return of the none since last application box
- Doctors checks done on initial grant, with marker added, no need for further medical intervention unless a condition is reported or moving to a different area
- Modernise the entire process (police to have access to medical, passport and dvla data about applicant), most checks can and should be possible with a few clicks of a mouse
- A few teaks to a banking app could make the entire process possible
BASC need to be careful of what they ask for as it’s likely such work would be sub-contracted to the private sector.
Having witnessed many examples of how the utterly vile employees of Serco neglect their duties & especially how they treat those ‘customers’ who they think they can bully I’d be very reluctant to put any additional duties in their hands (ditto G4S).
Having witnessed many examples of how the utterly vile employees of Serco neglect their duties & especially how they treat those ‘customers’ who they think they can bully I’d be very reluctant to put any additional duties in their hands (ditto G4S).
Police to have access to what medical data? Your records?
Norfolk Deer Search
Well-Known Member
they have that anyway, we all used to tick a little box that gave the police access to out medical records!
If you have nothing to hide, you don’t have a problem.
I have to agree with @andyk - your tone is very much 'I'm across, blow the bridge'.
For those looking to get into the sport of shooting - whatever discipline they want, be it stalking, target, competitive etc it is worrying. For those who don't reload and have small ammunition allowances, the impact of renewal times can range from frustrating to impacting their ability to partake in their chosen activity.
But so long as you're OK...
Hornet 6
Well-Known Member
The police force have been failing for a while now, I don't think they are a suitable service to oversee Firearms Licensing.
I will not re-new my certs this summer when the time comes, because I won't deal with the police and their needs.
I say when asked that there are no medical reason why I should not be granted both certificates, and the first thing they
do is imply that you are lying, and demand a doctors back up. Well it isn't any part of a doctors job to decide who is or
is not fit to hold a cert. So guns sold off and licensing informed during covid lockdown.
Their response on hearing that my guns were sold, and the return of my certs, NOTHING
To this day I have not heard a word.
Neil.
I will not re-new my certs this summer when the time comes, because I won't deal with the police and their needs.
I say when asked that there are no medical reason why I should not be granted both certificates, and the first thing they
do is imply that you are lying, and demand a doctors back up. Well it isn't any part of a doctors job to decide who is or
is not fit to hold a cert. So guns sold off and licensing informed during covid lockdown.
Their response on hearing that my guns were sold, and the return of my certs, NOTHING
To this day I have not heard a word.
Neil.
Len the dog
Well-Known Member
It’s not a case of having nothing to hide but giving a non medically trained police officer the opportunity to completely misinterpret what they are looking at. At present the GP signs a declaration that there is nothing to raise concern within your records, if they simply hand over your records to the police, and some will have extremely lengthy records, then where would an untrained person even begin to look for something relevant.
Stalker62
Well-Known Member
The alternative being that they just accept what everyone tells them to be the absolute truth?
Well it is now.
I am sorry you are giving up shooting, and do hope you find another pastime to enjoy.
Norfolk Deer Search
Well-Known Member
I’m sorry, but I see things completely differently, you’re all bitching and whingeing that things aren’t getting done in a Bristol fashion timeframe, that’s because the heat is continually getting bigger by people applying, stop applications until the backlog is sorted, once the back log is sorted, then sort the applications it’s not rocket science.
You don’t go to the supermarket and barge to the front of the queue if there is already an existing customer at the front, firearms Department should be no different!
No it’s not good for shooting, but it’s better for existing certificate holders to be looked after wouldn’t you agree?
The police are overstretched underfunded, and in a complete shambles, why make life more complicated for them by adding to the pile of complication!
Apparently a few were withholding a medical history that if declared would have seen their application refused.
Then for the applications that the police did need to approach the applicants GP the police has to do the work and when asked had to pay the GP, all of which they did not like doing,
The GP report has merit but GP contracts should be amended to make it part of their Job.
They also do a lot of work that is nothing to do with issuing a certificate, but revoking them, section 11 inspections etc etc. So your renewal may be should go behind all that work also, then even you may not find a very long wait acceptable. Especially during this shortage of ammunition, bullets, primers and powder we are all experiencing.
Len the dog
Well-Known Member
At least you are allowed into the supermarket and can join the queue. Imagine walking up to the checkout and being told, “sorry, there’s already a queue, can you leave the store”.
Who pays for this independent regulatory body?
Len the dog
Well-Known Member
£1000 certificates because the public will NOT want to contribute towards that when already they can’t see their benefits from a licensing system for a leisure activity that they don’t have any connection to.
Similar threads
