FAC air vs 12ft/lb?

[Bear1cat]

I do love my .22 fac air. I also have a .177 sub 12ftbs which is great but only really gets used for work inside farm buildings these days. I definitely would not use the fac inside buildings.
If you already have an FAC it is no hassle getting FAC air added to it.
They really do hit a lot harder then standard air rifles.

 

[2Ll’s]

That's a good 1000 FPS, I guess those slugs are the way to go.

1035 on average

 

[2Ll’s]

1035 on average

 

[Dodder]

I always use an fac .22 wherever legal to do so (even at short ranges) rather than a standard 12ftlb .177 or .22. It hits much harder and so is inherently more humane. It does give extra reach, but for me it's all about ensuring as quick and humane a despatch as possible.
To quote Robert Ruak - 'use enough gun'.

 

[cooper89]

Having been in the same position myself last year, I wanted an air rifle that could do ferals and rats inside farm sheds, and also do corvids around farmyards at much further ranges, I managed to pick up an air arms s510, this has the power adjuster screw so I can turn it down to 7ft inside and then upto 32ftlb outside, of course the zero height changes but it’s easy to work out and once you know where it is it’s simple, I’ve had a carrion at 104y with it and countless corvids at 60-80y

If your able to pick up something adjustable I’d recommend it

 

[Stalker-of-the-deer]

I'm in a position where I can't use a 22lr because of how flat the area is plus livestock but can't use a 12ft because of distance!

Put in for a .25 fac air and will be getting an m3 impact when funds allow.

Bloody brilliant things, my mates been hammering crows at 120m with his, great thing is the bc on the pellets and slugs isn't that good and because they are at a lower velocity the fall out zone is really small. They do however still have enough power to put the hurt on vermin out to a good distance.

 

[wildfowler.250]

Thanks gents, looks like FAC air is the way to go. I’ve got no interest really in indoor / Steading shooting and the springer would be adequate for that. It’s much more , winged vermin which I would like to drop cleanly with a chest shot that I’m after,(12ft/lb you really have to hit them perfect in the head).

30FT/lb seems to be the optimum? Do I just apply for “FAC air” or does the FT/lb need stating?

The BSA R10 seems like a cheap and reasonable option ? A lot of folk seem to use daystate but it’s a bit high end for something that’s going to come out maybe 6 times a year.

 

[Zetter]

For FAC air you just specify the caliber and off you go the power can be whatever you set it at. Personally speaking I like my R10 MK2 its got enough shots at 30 ft/lb for a decent day going to about 40 before needing a recharge.

30ft/lb is about optimum for .22 I seem to recall someone on airgun BBS doing a load of work a few years ago and working out about 30 ft/lb was the best compromise between power and air use. If you go much over that in .22 you need to push the pellet weight up to keep them from going supersonic with the resultant accuracy loss.

 

[Roebuck9]

Yes .22 FAC is definetly worth it over 12flb I am troubled by squirels and woodpigions on the bird feeder even with head shots they do not drop dead so with a 30lbs FAC they are, even had a fox one night when asked to control rabbits in a horse paddock near a house. It dropped without a twitch with one between the eyes.

 

[Squirrelbasher]

Thanks gents, looks like FAC air is the way to go. I’ve got no interest really in indoor / Steading shooting and the springer would be adequate for that. It’s much more , winged vermin which I would like to drop cleanly with a chest shot that I’m after,(12ft/lb you really have to hit them perfect in the head).

30FT/lb seems to be the optimum? Do I just apply for “FAC air” or does the FT/lb need stating?

The BSA R10 seems like a cheap and reasonable option ? A lot of folk seem to use daystate but it’s a bit high end for something that’s going to come out maybe 6 times a year.

Just put .22 air rifle on the variation. As said, if you already have powder burners fac air won’t be questioned. A rifle with an external power adjuster makes fac air more versatile as well. Worth bearing in mind.

 

[Bowland blades]

177 is best right around the 12 ftlb limit , 22 is at its best around 15 ftlb ! After that there are 22rf ammo types available better suited.
Debateable for the need to use an airgun on ticket in England and wales . I have in the past and its very niche in its real advantages and found 22 at around 15 ftlb gave a bit more whack and was a little better on trajectory and terminal effect . The 30 ft lb and over was no better than 22lr with the different ammo available, that's what i do using cci quiets, eley subsonic and velocitors in high velocity rounds .
Bad time in history for the airgun in the UK with Scotland having the airgun licence and the change towards non-toxic
Yeah i know about the super high power slug shooting airguns but they hold no advantages over powder burning cartridges

 

[One on top of two]

[
Yeah i know about the super high power slug shooting airguns but they hold no advantages over powder burning cartridges
[/QUOTE]


Hmmm well that’s incorrect for a start .

 

[cooper89]

177 is best right around the 12 ftlb limit , 22 is at its best around 15 ftlb ! After that there are 22rf ammo types available better suited.
Debateable for the need to use an airgun on ticket in England and wales . I have in the past and its very niche in its real advantages and found 22 at around 15 ftlb gave a bit more whack and was a little better on trajectory and terminal effect . The 30 ft lb and over was no better than 22lr with the different ammo available, that's what i do using cci quiets, eley subsonic and velocitors in high velocity rounds .
Bad time in history for the airgun in the UK with Scotland having the airgun licence and the change towards non-toxic
Yeah i know about the super high power slug shooting airguns but they hold no advantages over powder burning cartridges

Disagree here, 22air at 30+ftlb don’t ricochet like LR, couple with the slower velocity than subsonic rounds and much lighter projectiles the air falls of way way faster than LR, Making the air safer to use in sensitive areas

There’s lots of different reasons why FAC air suits more than LR, if all your doing is rabbits out on open ground then yes LR is probably the better option but there lots and lots of scenarios the FAC air is better

 

[User00035]

I have FAC air as well as non FAC air and while it is a lot of of hassle if you don't initially have FAC (i.e. its all the agro of getting a rimfire for 1/3rd of the power) if you do and have cabinet space I would say go for it. The one advantage of FAC air is hitting power. It really in my experience doesn't do a lot for you in terms of extra range really (I tried my night time bunny bashing a couple of times and unless its at known distances I find I really needed a rangefinder) so if you shoot non FAC air and expect it to push you out an extra 30-40 yards then it may a bit of a let down as its still have a rather pronounced trajectory.
However the extra power is handy for hitting power. I use my primarily for squirrel shooting when our season is over on the shoot I beat on and it opens up a lot more possibilities due to the extra wallop. I have always found squirrels quite a tough animal with sub 12 air requiring a decent on target headshot for a clean kill but the FAC air offers up the option of chest shots as a realistic option for a clean despatch, so if they are in a bit of a difficult position on a branch or a twig is in a bad place then you have more options on where to hit them.
This goes even more so for avian pests as they are generally more delicate and body shots put them down hard with FAC air as its got the extra energy to punch through to the vitals. With diablo pellets the fall off range on FAC air while taking elevated shots is also quite short as they do by the nature of the pellet design run out of puff and are generally not carrying a lot of mass.

Price wise if you are going .22 there are definitely deals to be had out there as being less popular/ much more difficult to own than standard air rifles the price on older models does plummet. My current rifle I got about 3 years ago and is an FAC BSA R10 MKII and this was only £500. You do see a lot of Air Arms 410s floating about in FAC air for quite low prices and they are pretty bomb proof.

This was exactly my thinking when I put in for a .22 FAC. Haven't bought one yet because my circumstances have changed, though I will get one before renewal.
I wanted one for pigeon and jackdaw shooting in the tree tops. With a sub-12 you have to turn down countless targets because you can't get a head or shoulder blade shot. Jackdaws are not very robust and fairly easy to kill but body shooting woodies with sub-12 air is just unethical. Most of the them will fly off with a pellet in them and a pigeon's head at 30 yards in a tree that may be swaying in the breeze isn't necessarily easy. 20 lb+ FAC air will nail them with a body shot, hugely upping the bag. And pigeons and jackdaws are smart. If you let too many live to tell the tale, behaviour will soon change.

Ditto squirrels. Head shots only with sub 12 or you'll have injured squirrels all over the place. And they're masters at concealment. Being able to take more shots with whatever target they present to you makes a world of difference to numbers shot.

I know this because I used to have a Theoben Eliminator in .22. It had plenty of knockdown power. I think it was somewhere between 26 and 30 ft/lb. But it was very difficult to shoot accurately with far too much forward recoil. And it was a pig to cock and the barrel hinge shims would wear causing stringing. But it would happily punch a hole through the best part of an inch of timber at 40 yards with Bisley Magnums. That's significantly more wallop than a sub-12.
When I buy again it will probably be an Air Arms 510. The 410's are great value but I'd spend a bit more and go 510 because they are regulated.

 

[Fursty Ferret]

I couldn't be without my fac air and use it daily for work.
Love my sub 12 HW100 in .177 but the .22 fac is such a useful tool.
Can use it where the .22lr isn't suitable and it will deck rabbits with chest shots all day long. Devastating on rats and pigeons too.
Get a variable power one and you have a lot of versatility......having said that I never used mine on lower power settings as have the sub 12's for that, but the option is there.
If all you need is 40yrds then a sub 12 is the way. If you want further and don't want to be restricted to head shots then fac is hard to overlook

 

[User00035]

An FAC HW80 is an option worth considering. They were originally designed to be around 18 ft/lb and can be tuned to 20, but they were modified to reduce power to comply with UK law. The original full power version is said to shoot better than the sub-12 version.
I think they're about £500 new (maybe gone up recently what with the economic situation), but that is a significant saving over a higher power pcp.

It all depends what you want it for. Corvids out of trees at around thirty yards I would think it would be ideal for, possibly in .20 calibre as a compromise for energy and trajectory at that power level.
As @Fursty Ferret says, the advantage of a top-end pcp with dialable power is that it will cover many bases, and perform the tasks of two or more rifles, from a sub-12 rifle to a high power 40+lb rabbit knocker. But you need fairly deep pockets to start with.
If you haven't currently got any sort of air rifle and would be opting for a pcp even if it is sub-12, a single dialable FAC becomes a cost effective way to go.

I wouldn't be bothered about having an on-ticket gun as my only air rifle. It's no more hassle than owning licensed cartridge rifles and shotguns and in any case it's not inconceivable that all air guns will be licensed across all parts of the UK before long anyway, so you might as well own one with more authority and greater versatility.

 

[bowji john]

I’ve gone for 12lb fx impact A3s

However they are just for fun - jungle lanes scenarios

It is part of the fun and games we run for Stag and hen groups

 

[Pellet Pinger]

Dont have air rifles any more but having had a FAC .25 Impact the only thing i would ever use a sub 12 for is ratting. Having said that i still left the sub12 in the cabinet and took the Impact instead, turned it down to 30ftlb and it made short work of them.
If you have a licence then FAC all day long for me, you can go the whole hog and get an adjustable power one or just go for a Rapid or the like.

 

[Conor O'Gorman]

Of course BASC proposed by them a voluntary ban on the use of lead for live quarry shooting so you may need to future proof yourself if their back pedalling regarding DEFRA and a lead ban comes to naught?

There is no 'back pedalling' - BASC is opposed to a ban on the use of lead airgun pellets for target shooting and live quarry shooting and has provided evidence to the Health and Safety Executive (HSE) to back up this position. The HSE lead ammunition review for England, Wales and Scotland has been extended by six months because of the weight of evidence received from organisations, clubs syndicates and individual shooters. Perhaps we need to rally behind BASC and the other organisations in fighting the lead ban proposals rather than sniping from the side-lines?

 

[enfieldspares]

There is no 'back pedalling' - BASC is opposed to a ban on the use of lead airgun pellets for target shooting and live quarry shooting and has provided evidence to the Health and Safety Executive (HSE) to back up this position. The HSE lead ammunition review for England, Wales and Scotland has been extended by six months because of the weight of evidence received from organisations, clubs syndicates and individual shooters. Perhaps we need to rally behind BASC and the other organisations in fighting the lead ban proposals rather than sniping from the side-lines?

John Swift and the LAG I assume wants a total ban on lead? For the views of this individual seem to be that. That he and his group of which he is the Chairman does want a ban of all lead for all shooting? And indeed is very much proactive in contacting forestry groups regarding lead ammunition for squirrel control..and even the House of Lords Dining Committee on lead shot game...in regard to the use of lead ammunition.

Yet BASC have awarded him Life Membership? So how do you square that circle please?

This link allows you to see all the minutes of recent meetings:

Meetings – Lead Ammunition Group

2015 Report:
What are the options for dealing with the human health problems? The only way to guarantee the mitigation of human health problems arising from consuming meat from animals shot with lead ammunition is to replace it with non-toxic alternatives. There is as yet no convincing evidence that options short of replacement of lead ammunition will address known risks to human health and especially child health.

Note the word lead ammunition not lead pellets from shotgun cartridges and indeed if you read the 2015 LAG Report it is quite clear on that point.

I'd urge other SD Members to follow these links and see the 2022 MInutes of the LAG that John Swift is associated with where "JS" is him below:

https://www.leadammunitiongroup.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/Minutes_of_the_27th_Lead_Ammunition_Group_meeting.pdf

Consensus among the group is that the HSE Restriction Dossier for Lead Ammunition is thorough and evidence based.

https://www.leadammunitiongroup.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/05/Minutes_of_the_26th_LAG_group.pdf

JS also notes the need for evidence to counter the anecdotal argument that steel shot has a higher propensity to wound animals. Good idea to highlight the pain and suffering caused to wildlife by lead poisoning.

And this below is well worth reading in full to see what input was made:

https://www.leadammunitiongroup.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/Minutes-of-the-24th-LAG-Meeting.pdf