Another warning .17 hmr ballistic tipped CCI

[Overlay]

Ha! I had exactly the same about five years ago, same ammo and rifle. I was just using it to harvest the brass but had that many case separations I quit and bought RWS. It happened that many times that I carried a small easy out and a cleaning rod in the gun slip. Like you I got the gun looked at and thankfully no damage, then the RFD swapped what i had left for Remington. I got no feedback from Hornady though.

Home loads only from then.

cjs

yep and me, .22 hornet. importers paid for the repair and replaced all the ammo, took a while though

 

[Smellydog]

And if you are happy with that sound job - I thought i was switched on and it bit my ass

I understand.
I once had a 222 factory blow it's primer pocket, would I have another 222? Absolutely.
A friend of mine had a 6.5 Swede bolt in his face. Would I have another 6.5, hell yeah.
I once had a 30-30 case split from top to bottom and pepper my face. Not stopped me.

Chit happens. Sometimes the cause is easily circumnavigated. It's not in this instance an unexplainable random thing. Stupid yes, preventable, yes.

 

[old keeper]

Any found with splits prior to firing are destroyed and not used

Over the years and several thousand 17HMR rounds, I had one fairly serious near squeak.

For me, the main problem is when shooting at night when several quick shots are required.

I separate the ones with split necks and use them in daylight when there's generally no pressure. I've used a considerable number of split neck rounds and have only had one "squib" quickly removed with the 17 cleaning rod. I think that if the rounds are stored where there's a damp atmosphere there is a good chance of these rounds causing more trouble than those stored in really dry surroundings.

 

[Foxyboy43]

I was always taught to check my tyres on any vehicle I was to use that day.
Many don't. Some of them have probably had a bad accident because they didn't. I bet though them that did have an accident did don't quit driving!
It's just a simple check, that's all, nothing hard about it.

Now that made me smile - this a.m. before going to the range I checked two boxes of .17 hmr and 10 minutes ago I checked the tyres because we are going to a birthday party tonight 40 miles away - must be a age generation thing!

 

[Foxyboy43]

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I didn't explain it very well and yes, whilst there's one main peak, there's two parts to the build up of pressure. Detonation/obturation of the case, and swaging/driving down the barrel of the bullet. Peak pressure as we know occurs when the pressure rise in the chamber drives the bullet into the rifling. I was just pondering the effects of a split case on the build up of pressure, especially with loss of powder or the effects of any moisture build up within the charge where the risk, on reflection, is more likely to be that of secondary detonation as discussed earlier in the thread which could explain the OP's experience?

Maybe a naive thought to the point of being silly but would obturation not seal the case split?

 

[Smellydog]

Now that made me smile - this a.m. before going to the range I checked two boxes of .17 hmr and 10 minutes ago I checked the tyres because we are going to a birthday party tonight 40 miles away - must be a age generation thing!

Find any split neck FB?

 

[Foxyboy43]

Find any split neck FB?

None before or after firing and the tyres were good too!

 

[fizzbangwhallop]

Got a call from a mate yesterday…. he’d just had a nasty experience with his CZ452 .17HMR and Hornady rounds…. he turned up with the rifle this morning and we think we’ve worked out what happened…

Chambered Round1 (probably had a split neck), pulled the trigger, didn’t notice anything untoward with the shot(or lack of it) being focused on the rabbit;
Chambered Round2, bolt a bit heavy going forward….
Ejected that and chambered Round3, no resistance on the bolt… took aim, pulled the trigger, big bang, WTF?! Left ear ringing.
Opened the bolt with the case stuck to the bolt face and fractured around its rim…

Inspecting the remaining rounds in the box… these are/look like an older batch of Hornady with dirty brown/red tips compared with a new box with bright red tips. 4 out of 24 have split necks.

We reckon the sequence of events was …..
a) Round1 had a split neck, with just enough effort from the primer to push the bullet out of the case into the lands;
b) Chambering Round2 pushed the first bullet further into the lands whilst pushing its own bullet back into the case;
c) Round3 went in behind the lodged bullet and on firing, the bullets got 10cm up the bore before the rim of the case gave up the ghost.

The magazine stayed in place and the next round in the top of that is dented on the shoulder. There are powder kernels in the action from Rounds 1 & 2

So, a lucky escape but 2 bullets lodged up the barrel… he’s gutted, it’s a tack-driver and reckons he’s only put around 200 rounds up it. (Rabbits have only really made a comeback on this bit of ground this year)

Photos…
Bolt face, he broke the body of the case off.
4 marked rounds with splits, Round2 with the bullet back in the case, the next one in the magazine, the case body of Round3, balance of the box.





Next question… how to get those stuck bullets out on the chance that it didn’t bulge the barrel and is still a tack-driver…and carry on as before whilst inspecting rounds for split necks…..or let the gunshop pursue the ammo importers for a new rifle with all the inconvenience and delay a variation entails?

cheers
fizz

 

[Smellydog]

Got a call from a mate yesterday…. he’d just had a nasty experience with his CZ452 .17HMR and Hornady rounds…. he turned up with the rifle this morning and we think we’ve worked out what happened…

Chambered Round1 (probably had a split neck), pulled the trigger, didn’t notice anything untoward with the shot(or lack of it) being focused on the rabbit;
Chambered Round2, bolt a bit heavy going forward….
Ejected that and chambered Round3, no resistance on the bolt… took aim, pulled the trigger, big bang, WTF?! Left ear ringing.
Opened the bolt with the case stuck to the bolt face and fractured around its rim…

Inspecting the remaining rounds in the box… these are/look like an older batch of Hornady with dirty brown/red tips compared with a new box with bright red tips. 4 out of 24 have split necks.

We reckon the sequence of events was …..
a) Round1 had a split neck, with just enough effort from the primer to push the bullet out of the case into the lands;
b) Chambering Round2 pushed the first bullet further into the lands whilst pushing its own bullet back into the case;
c) Round3 went in behind the lodged bullet and on firing, the bullets got 10cm up the bore before the rim of the case gave up the ghost.

The magazine stayed in place and the next round in the top of that is dented on the shoulder. There are powder kernels in the action from Rounds 1 & 2

So, a lucky escape but 2 bullets lodged up the barrel… he’s gutted, it’s a tack-driver and reckons he’s only put around 200 rounds up it. (Rabbits have only really made a comeback on this bit of ground this year)

Photos…
Bolt face, he broke the body of the case off.
4 marked rounds with splits, Round2 with the bullet back in the case, the next one in the magazine, the case body of Round3, balance of the box.



View attachment 314219View attachment 314220View attachment 314221

Next question… how to get those stuck bullets out on the chance that it didn’t bulge the barrel and is still a tack-driver…and carry on as before whilst inspecting rounds for split necks…..or let the gunshop pursue the ammo importers for a new rifle with all the inconvenience and delay a variation entails?

cheers
fizz

Glad your all ok.
Inspect each box from now and you'll be fine.
Your gonna need a 4mm braß rod I think to drive them stuck bullets out. Maybe a steel one.
Odds are stacked in your favour accuracy wise to be honest.

 

[fizzbangwhallop]

Glad your all ok.
Inspect each box from now and you'll be fine.
Your gonna need a 4mm braß rod I think to drive them stuck bullets out. Maybe a steel one.
Odds are stacked in your favour accuracy wise to be honest.

We wondered about a piece of rod, my .17 cleaning rod is carbon fibre so I wasn’t keen on using that….and I’ve a single piece for brass rod but it’s only 4” long.

The nearest B&Q is showing 4mm steel rod in stock and the next nearest is showing both brass and steel in stock….can feel a road trip coming on…

Would you drive them forwards from the action even though they’re only about 4” in?

cheers
fizz
Edit…. he went to see another mate with an hmr and ’it’ just tapped out with a piece of fibreglass rod. He‘ll test it tonight…..having learn’t the hard way to check his necks.

Only one bullet in there which makes me wonder what happened to the first one?
cheers
fizz

 

[shakey jake]

after all the info on 17hmr, why does any one reload when a round doesnt sound right?
always double check the bore is clear

 

[Cottis]

We wondered about a piece of rod, my .17 cleaning rod is carbon fibre so I’m not keen on using that….and I’ve a single piece for brass rod but it’s only 4” long.

The nearest B&Q is showing 4mm steel rod in stock and the next nearest is showing both brass and steel in stock….can feel a road trip coming on…

Would you drive them forwards from the action even though they’re only about 4” in?

cheers
fizz
Edit…. he went to see another mate with an hmr and ’it’ just tapped out with a piece of fibreglass rod. He‘ll test it tonight…..having learn’t the hard way to check his necks.

Only one bullet in there which makes me wonder what happened to the first one?
cheers
fizz

I would go from muzzle end if it is only 4 inches in. Put a few drops of Ballistol or some sort of oil in each end which will help reduce friction. Put rifle vertical with butt on the floor. Gives better chance of keeping rod concentric to bore and give it a few careful whacks. I too would not use my cleaning rod as there is too much give in it. Use solid dowl made of some material that is softer than steel.

 

[fizzbangwhallop]

after all the info on 17hmr, why does any one reload when a round doesnt sound right?
always double check the bore is clear

Sound advice, but in his case… it’s never happened before and he’s not on any shooting forums to read all about it.

Of course he’s kicking himself for not checking when round2 wouldn’t chamber but sometimes you get a misshapen round that won’t feed smoothly … more so with .22’s that just bugger you about.

We’re going to give it a clean this afternoon then pass a fresh dry patch up it just to see if there’s any indication that the bore might have bulged.

Still puzzling me as to what caused the case self-destruct by the fact that only one bullet came out …. could the first bullet have cleared the barrel under its own momentum?
cheers
fizz

 

[Foxyboy43]

Lucky near miss and thankfully all good with your pal.
Couple of points here for me - any difference in effort to chamber MUST be investigated before firing the shot - this applies to all chamberings; and the sooner these instances are well publicised across social media and all damaged goods including unfired split rounds and rifles are returned to the RFD and restitution sought and obtained, the sooner the continuing “dodging the bullet” by the hmr manufacturers will have to stop.
As a thought and recognising that individual approaches go unanswered what about an “open “ email to Steve Hornady from the SD .17 hmr collective copied to as many shooting forums as possible? This would obviously require admin’s agreement should we wish to mention TSD but if not a more generic email would suffice. Draft attached but the ingress of oxygen to my lungs is will not be paused temporarily…
Offers?

Dear
I have been asked to write to you on behalf of a group of members of a popular UK shooting forum to convey our common concern about the increasing reports of serious problems with .17 hmr bullets. May I say from the outset that this concern aside we all agree that the .17hmr is a fantastic round but its fine reputation is we feel diminished by these growing adverse reports.
Our concern centres on the those instances reported where firing has caused both substantial damage to firearms and/or injury to the shooter. It is our perhaps simple view that as different manufacturers’ firearms are involved this suggests that there may be a problem with at least some batches of ammunition; indeed split neck/shoulder cases in new and unfired ammunition which may be a contributory factor are not uncommon occurrences.
I should be grateful therefore to have your views on these reports together with an indication of what action if any you have taken or indeed are taking to investigate these reports and if substantiated, what will be done to prevent repetition and serious injury to a shooter?
Yours etc,

 

[Smellydog]

Sorry , been out testing the 1022, all good there... again.
Yes tap it out the opposite way it went in.
Shouldn't take much.
As to why people just eject a rimfire round that does not fire or so it appears is because with 22 ammo it's quite common and in a hunting situation the rifle just gets cycled and fired again.
With HMR that's a no no, if you can't be arsed to inspect the ammo first.

 

[fizzbangwhallop]

Sorry , been out testing the 1022, all good there... again.
Yes tap it out the opposite way it went in.
Shouldn't take much.
As to why people just eject a rimfire round that does not fire or so it appears is because with 22 ammo it's quite common and in a hunting situation the rifle just gets cycled and fired again.
With HMR that's a no no, if you can't be arsed to inspect the ammo first.

You can be sure he'll be looking at them carefully from now on...... and checking the barrel if one doesn't go or sound right.

Cheers guys,

Fizz

 

[jall55]

Got a call from a mate yesterday…. he’d just had a nasty experience with his CZ452 .17HMR and Hornady rounds…. he turned up with the rifle this morning and we think we’ve worked out what happened…

Chambered Round1 (probably had a split neck), pulled the trigger, didn’t notice anything untoward with the shot(or lack of it) being focused on the rabbit;
Chambered Round2, bolt a bit heavy going forward….
Ejected that and chambered Round3, no resistance on the bolt… took aim, pulled the trigger, big bang, WTF?! Left ear ringing.
Opened the bolt with the case stuck to the bolt face and fractured around its rim…

Inspecting the remaining rounds in the box… these are/look like an older batch of Hornady with dirty brown/red tips compared with a new box with bright red tips. 4 out of 24 have split necks.

We reckon the sequence of events was …..
a) Round1 had a split neck, with just enough effort from the primer to push the bullet out of the case into the lands;
b) Chambering Round2 pushed the first bullet further into the lands whilst pushing its own bullet back into the case;
c) Round3 went in behind the lodged bullet and on firing, the bullets got 10cm up the bore before the rim of the case gave up the ghost.

The magazine stayed in place and the next round in the top of that is dented on the shoulder. There are powder kernels in the action from Rounds 1 & 2

So, a lucky escape but 2 bullets lodged up the barrel… he’s gutted, it’s a tack-driver and reckons he’s only put around 200 rounds up it. (Rabbits have only really made a comeback on this bit of ground this year)

Photos…
Bolt face, he broke the body of the case off.
4 marked rounds with splits, Round2 with the bullet back in the case, the next one in the magazine, the case body of Round3, balance of the box.



View attachment 314219View attachment 314220View attachment 314221

Next question… how to get those stuck bullets out on the chance that it didn’t bulge the barrel and is still a tack-driver…and carry on as before whilst inspecting rounds for split necks…..or let the gunshop pursue the ammo importers for a new rifle with all the inconvenience and delay a variation entails?

cheers
fizz

Fizz
Your mate needs to go after the manufacturer

 

[shakey jake]

Fizz
Your mate needs to go after the manufacturer

the ammo is pants but his mate needs to learn basic firearm safety. with basic safety followed this would never happen

 

[jall55]

the ammo is pants but his mate needs to learn basic firearm safety. with basic safety followed this would never happen

Yes - as in one of my earlier posts it happened to me shakey - I have shot all my life and honestly honestly thought i had the best / safest technique but i got caught out too.

 

[User00039]

How did a single round cause the explosion though? Surely if the round is chambered, even if the case fails it should be contained by the bolt and chamber?

Would it not be a failed round prior that was still in the bore that has then had another fired up behind it causing the pressure increase and explosion?

I bought a huge box of these…so better get to checking them….

Regards,
Gixer

I had a brand new box of these A17 ammunition, fired 4 rounds and 4 holes on target (admittedly not bad grouping), then the 5th round must of expanded in the chamber only went a cm or so and got stuck. So the charge came out through the magazine well. Don't really matter as it ed the magazine into tiny pieces and distorted the metal work etc ..