HSE final lead ammunition consultation launched

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Liveonce said:
Conor re BASC statement copied below for clay pigeon shooting;

for the majority if not all of english sporting and FITAS grounds (the most popular form of clay pigeon shooting in the uk) I doubt could put in place lead shot removal, due to shooting over scrub and or wooded areas.
I also doubt that any small clubs that are fortunate enough to shoot over mainly or all grassed areas could afford the cost of lead recovery, once the initial possible win from selling many years of accumulated lead had been completed, should then going forward the lead need to be recovered annually.

Then if the club rents the land will the owner give permission for the intrusive lead recovery process and possibly claim any lead recovered as belonging to them the landowner.

The Club I am secretary for has been shooting over mainly grass land for several decades I defy anybody to walk the ground and visually pick up lead shot, nature has away of swallowing it up. We regularly see buzzards in the area.

So in practice only trap disciplines will be potentially able to use lead shot provided they can afford and are able to facilitate the risk measures and lead removal.

However the risk is that still leaves lead shot available for live quarry shooting, given a size 7 (2.4mm) pellet is certainly seen as adequate for decoy pigeons and early season game birds.

Sorry Conor, this looks like nothing more than BSAC trying to make amends with the CPSA.

Then expensive biodegradable wads, the HSE are not proposing a ban on single use plastic so why are you?

Plus in reality only the water soluble or cardboard wad types degrade in days or weeks the rest take years, unlike fibre wads.
Time the cartridge manufactures had to put on a carton of biodegrade wad cartridges how long the wads take typically to degrade in the english countryside, not in an industrial EN 13432 composting process, so we the customers can make an informed choice.

Lead shot for live quarry and target shooting​

The consultation proposes a ban within five years or less, depending on the consultation outcome. BASC’s position is that clay pigeon shooting could continue where grounds have the correct risk measures in place, and they can ensure lead removal, as per the HSE guidance for target shooting with rifles.

BASC will be recommending to the HSE that the transition time for cartridges used in live quarry shooting must take into account the world shortage of components due to the war in Ukraine, and the need for manufacturers and assemblers to source new machinery to produce steel cartridges with biodegradable wads.
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Thanks @Liveonce since 2020 the shooting organisations have been encouraging a voluntary move away from lead shot and single use plastics for live quarry shooting with shotgun cartridges - because they believe its the right thing to do with the reasons outlined here: A joint statement on the future of shotgun ammunition for live quarry shooting - Game and Wildlife Conservation Trust

If I understand correctly, you are asking, what about those firing lead shot cartridges in the open countryside for various target shooting disciplines? I think it matters not to the birds ingesting lead shot why it was fired - it is available to them - so perhaps your club and others might consider moving away from lead shot in these situations?
 
timbrayford said:
Precisely, before the HSE puts forward its recommendations perhaps they need to be based on proper peer reviewed research and not conjecture?
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Please do put your points to the HSE in your response - after all there were less than 3,000 responses to the last HSE consultation and that delayed this stage of the review by over 6 months as well as influencing changes for the better on some proposals. I presume you were one of those that responded, so please do so again.
 
Conor O'Gorman said:
Thanks @Liveonce since 2020 the shooting organisations have been encouraging a voluntary move away from lead shot and single use plastics for live quarry shooting with shotgun cartridges - because they believe its the right thing to do with the reasons outlined here: A joint statement on the future of shotgun ammunition for live quarry shooting - Game and Wildlife Conservation Trust

If I understand correctly, you are asking, what about those firing lead shot cartridges in the open countryside for various target shooting disciplines? I think it matters not to the birds ingesting lead shot why it was fired - it is available to them - so perhaps your club and others might consider moving away from lead shot in these situations?
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What birds exactly consume lead shot over scrub and or wooded areas? as i say after many decades we should be knee deep in shot on the small area the clay club i belong too but none is visible on the ground, and if these birds consume the lead why do they not do so on a rifle range?

The real reason to ban lead shot for clay shooting is so it is not then used for live quarry shooting.

The cost of steel shot and biodegradable wads is such that it risks the future of clay pigeon shooting for the working man, let’s go the other way and ban game shooting which is nothing more than clay shooting with live targets.

It‘s all year round clay shooting that keeps a significant part of the shooting industry viable, not the few months of game shooting, so lose a significant part of the income from clay pigeon shooting and then see what the real cost of banning lead for clay shooting turns out to be. As i say again clay shooting grounds operate over a tiny area in relation to that of game shooting.

Sorry Conor you would make a good politician as you actually ignore any issues that get in the way of your agenda.
 
Bit of honesty here " I am not going to get concerned about target ranges" we are currently having no change to lead rifle bullets based on the evidence and no doubt the ricochet factor? And the fact that 100, 000 bullets aint going to amount to an environmental issue spread around a large estate and many of which will never be found by anything . I have been shooting copper a few years now and prefer it but its blooming expensive to shoot vermin with them and you do need to take care of ricochets. I say Well done BASC for making the argument work for hunting rifles of all kinds including airguns
 
LuckyEddie said:
Going by that train of thought the antis will just say either guns are acceptable or not, there is no middle ground.

We either fight for everything or nothing, death by a thousand cuts as they say.
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Not really.

The "antis" are alreasy saying guns are not acceptable. Have been for a long time.

There is a clear argument that guns are essential for tha management of certain species.

Lead ammunition is not and there is an argument that it's use is harmful to the environment and to those that consume meat from an animal that has been shot with it.

If that argument is correct it doesn't matter what the intention of the person firing the gun was, it's either acceptable to use lead ammunition or it isn't.
 
StephenToast said:
Lead ammunition is not and there is an argument that it's use is harmful to the environment and to those that consume meat from an animal that has been shot with it.
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There is a counter argument that goes like this, show us the freaking evidence?
Your suggestion of an argument has after approximately 300 years of game shot with lead bullets or shot has come up with zero evidence of harm.
Just like all the rain water running off leaded roofs and the millions of lead water pipes, zero evidence of a problem.
So bollocks to the bull**** that goes around and around until enough clowns are convinced it's true. It isn't true, only hypothetically and I don't yield to theory.
 
Smellydog said:
There is a counter argument that goes like this, show us the freaking evidence?
Your suggestion of an argument has after approximately 300 years of game shot with lead bullets or shot has come up with zero evidence of harm.
Just like all the rain water running off leaded roofs and the millions of lead water pipes, zero evidence of a problem.
So bollocks to the bull**** that goes around and around until enough clowns are convinced it's true. It isn't true, only hypothetically and I don't yield to theory.
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You have mentioned several times how you are willing to break the law if lead is banned.

I hope you get caught. People like you will be the end of shooting.
 
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