Lead Ban- UK Reach 2nd Consultation

[tim@tcs]

No its the motoring equivalent of banning lead in petrol and its already done and we are still driving petrol cars.

Sorry but the change from petrol to electric is as fundamental as the change from lead shot to steel!
If you don’t believe that shooters are being forced to change at expense and loss to historical items then have a look at the auctions where lots of lovely and fine guns are being virtually given away, taking lead from petrol didn’t mean scrapping old classic cars, this effectively causes shotgun owners to get rid of guns being made virtually valueless! Will there be any compensation offered?

 

[KimE]

Not here in Sweden they who drive a classic car can buy an additive for the same purpose as lead.

I hope they make an extemption to use lead for antique firearms, alternatives exist to use in old firearms but you will probably not use them as your primary clay gun as they are expensive. Next generation of hunters buy new firearms anyway so the next classic guns are the gun what are new now.

 

[tim@tcs]

This may be true but But BASC or elements of BASC were in favour of a lead ban well before any mention of Brexit

It’s called selling out, I can’t ever see the Americans and their organisations doing the same!

 

[KimE]

Sorry but the change from petrol to electric is as fundamental as the change from lead shot to steel!
If you don’t believe that shooters are being forced to change at expense and loss to historical items then have a look at the auctions where lots of lovely and fine guns are being virtually given away, taking lead from petrol didn’t mean scrapping old classic cars, this effectively causes shotgun owners to get rid of guns being made virtually valueless! Will there be any compensation offered?

Its the hunting wardrobe who hold the price of used guns down in Sweden, I can own 6 shotguns or rifles so I can only have gun I really use old rifles and shotguns are sold cheap as you cant take on guns from old relatives just because they have a sentimental value.

 

[enfieldspares]

Next generation of hunters buy new firearms anyway so the next classic guns are the gun what are new now.

Ermm? Some of us inherited our guns passed down from our father (and in the case of a Enfield Martini my mother) and some of use...even when we started...have never bought a new gun in our life (save in my case for a .357 Magnum Colt Trooper III in 1976).

 

[Bowland blades]

Not really giving evidence though, I don’t have 15 years shooting left with a shotgun, I will hand in my sgc next renewal as I get as much pleasure watching a good days pheasant shooting as I used to taking part!

Still no official evidence presented to show that steel will do what lead has, nothing from a scientific perspective anyway

Well i can certainly tell you that it kills pheasant very well indeed and has well proven itself of the saltmarshes over the years on geese and duck ( though the early days steel loads where initially rubbish that's a long while back now)

 

[Bowland blades]

Ermm..with exemptions to allow older cars to use still available leaded petrol. So leaded petrol has NOT been 100% banned in the UK.

https://www.yell.com/l/leaded+petrol.html

Welcome to Ashwell Garage

Will there be a similar exemption for damascus barrel shotguns, vena contracta shotguns and those made before 1954?

bismuth

 

[enfieldspares]

bismuth

But as I have argued in my submission a replacement is not a true like for like in cost replacement of that cost is £1.50 a shot is it. If cost were not an issue then the best replacement of all for lead shot would be gold shot.

 

[Bowland blades]

But as I have argued in my submission a replacement is not a true like for like in cost replacement of that cost is £1.50 a shot is it. If cost were not an issue then the best replacement of all for lead shot would be gold shot.

But as I have argued in my submission a replacement is not a true like for like in cost replacement of that cost is £1.50 a shot is it. If cost were not an issue then the best replacement of all for lead shot would be gold shot.

Not when loaded and bismuth factory shell prices are not all about bismuth metal price , rather about supply and demand. Bismuth is actually used thrown into galvanising tanks to sink the dross, i doubt the galvanisers pay anything like what the cartridge makers need to charge for the niche market it is . Also those guns that only can shoot bismuth are rare and are not the tool you might take on a big numbers day either, light low pressure steel should work just fine

 

[timbrayford]

This may be true but But BASC or elements of BASC were in favour of a lead ban well before any mention of Brexit

WJ's Avery's friend John Swift? Don't know why BASC allow him to be a member?

I'm really torn on the lead/steel debate
I want to be more sustainable and environmentally considerate, and also careful with food hygiene and putting meat in the food chain. But factors such as price, availability and performance hinder my thought processes

 

[tim@tcs]

Well i can certainly tell you that it kills pheasant very well indeed and has well proven itself of the saltmarshes over the years on geese and duck ( though the early days steel loads where initially rubbish that's a long while back now)

Ok have you published your data for peer review?
I’m sorry I’m not trying to say you are talking rubbish but we are expected to have evidence which has undergone serious review to use, I’m not convinced that the original lead and wildfowl ingestion studies in the states were rigorously reviewed and that was the thin end of the wedge to stop us shooting!
They would stop us shooting clays too as all guns are evil!
This is the common purpose attitude that has destroyed our sport and society over the years!
I was a good shot in the army and shot a lot for four years before joining! Nowadays recruits have no exposure to shooting apart from computer games and this means the pool of useful people that could be recruited is smaller every generation!
We are under attack a sustained left wing led attack that governments have encouraged since the 1960’s!

 

[webley701]

Interesting that the same information posted above from CPSA website that I provided in the other thread was met with unwarranted abusive comments that closed the thread but in this thread the same information causes not a ripple.

Progress has been made pushing back against the HSE proposals, this consultation is the last one, and lots of consultation responses are needed.

I’ll certainly complete the survey but BASC should be in no doubt that I hold them partly responsible for this situation.

 

[Conor O'Gorman]

This may be true but But BASC or elements of BASC were in favour of a lead ban well before any mention of Brexit

That is definitely not the case, BASC has been fighting lead ban proposals since the 1980s.

 

[Conor O'Gorman]

I’ll certainly complete the survey but BASC should be in no doubt that I hold them partly responsible for this situation.

Thanks, and I am sorry to hear that you think that about BASC - if you would like to elaborate on why you think that, I would be grateful to understand why, either on here, by PM or email at conor.ogorman@basc.org.uk

 

[User00040]

Not quite, a common thread both with lead additives in petrol and paints was a major transmission route into the human body was via inhalation, same applies to people whose occupations involve exposure to other lead vapours and dusts. Its just not comparable to shooting with lead shot.

Same applies to shooting lead primers.

Research has been done, the 'lead free lobby' don't want all the facts to come out...

The truth hurts!

 

[potshotpat]

I’ve said this before.
My Granddaddy gave up smoking when he was 94…he was dead by 96 and his mother told me it was giving up smoking that killed him!
Ken.

My great granddad died at 102 the doctors notes said the drink got to him.

 

[Conor O'Gorman]

Reach was already a Eu compliance game to which we could easily have ignored and frankly should have
There won’t be an Eu wide ban or attempt at compliance as some nations will simply ignore it like the French and Poles!

Yes perhaps the UK Government could have not instructed the HSE the review lead in ammunition, but it did, and here we are two years later nearing the end of that review. In fact the review is behind schedule thanks to the less than 3,000 people that responded to last year's HSE consultation. Hopefully we can get more responses this time? I hope you will be amongst those responding to the current and final consultation that ends on 10 December.

 

[Conor O'Gorman]

That’s because it was posted by the CPSA in October 2022 in a vain attempt to save lead shot and one can just about forgive a Clay shooting organisation for not knowing that 24gm or less is suitable for live quarry shooting however all that factual information on the thread that was closed is still valid. So why bother to repeat it all?

Because that is a possible solution to allow clay shooting to continue in the face of what the HSE arguments and proposals are. However, we are now in a new consultation with new proposals and again all the shooting organisations, including CPSA, are reviewing the detail and drafting responses. As individuals we can also respond to the consultation, and I know you have done so.

 

[Liveonce]

Because that is a possible solution to allow clay shooting to continue in the face of what the HSE arguments and proposals are. However, we are now in a new consultation with new proposals and again all the shooting organisations, including CPSA, are reviewing the detail and drafting responses. As individuals we can also respond to the consultation, and I know you have done so.

Conor, on a positive note I think you deserve credit for engaging in relying to posts and on a Sunday, no other shooting organisation has done likewise as far as I know.

 

[JTO]

That is definitely not the case, BASC has been fighting lead ban proposals since the 1980s.

So why did Harradine get up at the Cheltenham Wildfowling conference and say he had used both lead and steel and couldn't tell the difference? Perhaps he missed with everything!