Bo Diddley
Well-Known Member
You're banging your head against a brick wall villamanYou are must be totally blind if you can’t see the the advantages of FAC air over 22lr
Fac air is it worth it ?
- Thread starter .222roebuck
- Start date
Strange you called me old then
May be old in age but not in mind and definitely not stuck in my ways !!
I can there really is and i have had quite a few , to me its the lack of power and the use with darts in the application of drugs .You are must be totally blind if you can’t see the the advantages of FAC air over 22lr
Are you perhaps missing the fact that i have and do use FAC air and sub 12 , in the lower powders there is certainly nothing to touch the airgun and i have yet to see a powder burner deliver sedation or medication drugs .
PCP can of course be a hobby in itself , there are quite a few black powder users !
I take that remark badly lets say but its easy to type to someone you feel you won't ever come face to face with . It was obviously because you had zero worthwhile real facts and experiences that could stand up in debate.
BTW i grew up in the time that Drugs really hit the uk hard in Merseyside I have a list of dead mates from that time died too young or got locked away for a long time . Never touched the drugs .
BTW i grew up in the time that Drugs really hit the uk hard in Merseyside I have a list of dead mates from that time died too young or got locked away for a long time . Never touched the drugs .
Last edited by a moderator:
billy_boyle_2010
Well-Known Member
I can see what BB is saying- FAC air at 22LR power levels doesn't seem to offer many advantages (except accuracy)- and does come with additional disadvantages (variable reliability, air top up etc).
I do think a rochocheting 18gr pellet or v deformed 30gr slug is less scary than a slightly deformed 22lr round though.......
I do disagree that 20 ft lbs is a sweet spot for fac air. That's less flat than a sub 12 177! IMO most of the time you want 22lr trajectory from a 16-28gr pellet- so 25-45 ft lbs. Perhaps dialing down for rats/pigeons in buildings is handy- although often sub 12 does this ok.
22lr has always been way over powered for most quarry (except fox)- 99% of quarry shot by 22lr have required far less power. And FAC air can achieve this safely and in the majority of cases- more accurately. I can really see the appeal.
The slugs have certainly changed the game- I can't believe they expand sufficiently to rarely exit quarry ? That's a brilliant feature. Plus it gives shooters distinct options.
The main reason I'm resisting FAC air is the same reason I'm resisting electronic scopes- it just seems like *another* thing to remember/bring/charge/source of error.
If FAC air was the norm- and suddenly 22lr was invented and marketed as "never run out of air again" it would be an easy sell for some......
I do think a rochocheting 18gr pellet or v deformed 30gr slug is less scary than a slightly deformed 22lr round though.......
I do disagree that 20 ft lbs is a sweet spot for fac air. That's less flat than a sub 12 177! IMO most of the time you want 22lr trajectory from a 16-28gr pellet- so 25-45 ft lbs. Perhaps dialing down for rats/pigeons in buildings is handy- although often sub 12 does this ok.
22lr has always been way over powered for most quarry (except fox)- 99% of quarry shot by 22lr have required far less power. And FAC air can achieve this safely and in the majority of cases- more accurately. I can really see the appeal.
The slugs have certainly changed the game- I can't believe they expand sufficiently to rarely exit quarry ? That's a brilliant feature. Plus it gives shooters distinct options.
The main reason I'm resisting FAC air is the same reason I'm resisting electronic scopes- it just seems like *another* thing to remember/bring/charge/source of error.
If FAC air was the norm- and suddenly 22lr was invented and marketed as "never run out of air again" it would be an easy sell for some......
Bo Diddley
Well-Known Member
The only thing extra you need is a divers bottle... once you have it you're sorted, cheap enough to fill, £5 any size at my local, others may be about £8 per fill, don't worry about seals going & leaks, that's not such a problem as it was say 15- 20 years ago in the early days of pcp's.
My Fx Crown has been faultless, with over 100 full power shots @fac .22 before you need a top-up, I'm ratting mostly with mine, a smidge of holdover and I can stretch down the long 50-yard corridors on the pig unit and kill safely & cleanly. Squirrels in the treetops are not a problem, loads of fun.
They might seem expensive... but there are no pockets in a shroud.
Edit; I'm with ya on the digital/electronic scopes though
Are you serious? everything that comes up you’ve been involved with and have done better than everything else.
As always, I bet your dog is blacker than his dog!!
billy_boyle_2010
Well-Known Member
The only thing extra you need is a divers bottle... once you have it you're sorted, cheap enough to fill, £5 any size at my local, others may be about £8 per fill, don't worry about seals going & leaks, that's not such a problem as it was say 15- 20 years ago in the early days of pcp's.
My Fx Crown has been faultless, with over 100 full power shots @fac .22 before you need a top-up, I'm ratting mostly with mine, a smidge of holdover and I can stretch down the long 50-yard corridors on the pig unit and kill safely & cleanly. Squirrels in the treetops are not a problem, loads of fun.
They might seem expensive... but there are no pockets in a shroud.
Edit; I'm with ya on the digital/electronic scopes though
Yup I get that. I have a couple of PCPs sub 12 with a bottle. Agree with everything you say. Pointing skywards and dropping a squirrel is v rewarding.
I shoot them way more accurately than my springer- but topping up is still a faff. I do leave pellets in my cars though- so I can never forget them. Can't do that with ammo. So I suppose I remove one thing I can forget with a powder burner. Dropping birds from sitty trees in a hide 50-60 yards away strikes me as a great use of FAC air actually.
Bo Diddley
Well-Known Member
Great fun... I had four hours last year on the edge of a small wood that was surrounded by oilseed rape and shot 52 woodies out of a sitty tree, my pal on the same field managed 31 over decoys.
billy_boyle_2010
Well-Known Member
Perfect- that would be a far better than average shotgun day to many!
To me FAC air should be modest , i have run a PCP and it measured up poorly against the very inexpensive , low-low maintainance of the 22 LR . You can of course run the 22 LR at a wide range of power levels . Someplace around 15 ft lb in a 22 airgun is perfect for rats and ferals in barns and shot up into trees as a steep trajectory it is pretty darn flat a long way up ( remember trajectory is horizontal travel that the factor in the curve, not the distance of flight path ) many forget that or have yet to learn it . windage is windage whatever though
How can a PCP that fires the same 40 grain lead slug around the 1000 fps be better than a 22 rf in use ? They are equal in the ballistics! Dont judge a broken down rusty old rf ,fed with cheap bulk ammo and maintained poorly against a decent and modern PCP with premium ammo though its just not representative.
Personally i have been shooting a lot of smaller quarry with 22 Hornet CF this last 10 years plus and the last year or so also with a 223 . Its cheap enough to hand load for , gives greater range than RF or FAC air . with the 22 rf though i can shoot a couple of hundred rounds without really thinking of the time re-loading or the cost of the ammo
billy_boyle_2010
Well-Known Member
DP
billy_boyle_2010
Well-Known Member
In what way did your FAC PCP measure up poorly ? Modern ones are reliable and ridiculously accurate. They barely existed 10-15 years ago- the change in tech has been incredibly quick. How old was your one that you didn't get on with ? 22LR at multiple power levels is far far less useful than people think IMO. The super short ones are still not especially safe to point skyward and personally I have had a lot of accuracy and feed issues with them. The HV ones- who needs them ? Perhaps for fox at 80-100 yards when a sub can be Loopy. But the noise puts a lot of people off and most would prefer a HMR or CF for such situations.
billy_boyle_2010
Well-Known Member
Quite easily it can- when and after it hits the quarry. A 40gr slug will expand FAR better than a 22LR bullet. And FAC air has many many options. You can tweak your pellet/slug as much as you like. 19-40gr in .25 cal. That's a heck of a variation. There's no way they will all behave the same as a 40gr 22lr bullet on quarry/hard ground with equal ballistics after impact and after richochet etc. I certainly don't compare a knackered 22lr rifle to £1.5k gun. But unless you use non expanding match grade ammo- the 22LR isnt as accurate as FAC air with heavy slugs.
We need to agree to disagree on these matters then
billy_boyle_2010
Well-Known Member
I agree- although I'm a .17H man myself. And I agree re the cost of running a 22LR is super cheap. The running costs of FAC air would be as cheap or cheaper. Purchase price the fac air loses all day long- but you cited running costs and lack of time reloading. And I think Fac matches or exceeds 22lr here.
billy_boyle_2010
Well-Known Member
Fair enough. Im no famboy. I don't own FAC air- and I love 22LR. I just think your reasoning is off- so I'm pushing back
Again we must disagree. There is a huge amount of different .22 rf ammo that gives various power levels and different weights , even very specialised " special purpose ammo " . Your honestly just lacking in knowing all the available ammo types even the plain whacky stuff like shot loads for large insects and clay / lead mix for fairgrounds , extra heavy subsonic for police military units
Similar threads
