Footpaths legality for dogs?

[Merlyn]

On a recent walking holiday in Lincolnshire I came across a new problem. The footpaths in the Lincolnshire Wolds are, in the main, in very good order. My partner and I, experienced treckers, walked about eight to ten miles a day over beautiful countryside on well kept and marked footpaths. We were always accompanied by our three dogs - Labradore, Golden Retiever and rescued 'mutt' who only speaks Bosnian. We had no problems whatsoever and all was well until on the last quarter of a nine miler we encountered a 'difficult' stile. Now theis was no ordinary stile. The footpath went across a sheepfield. The stile was about 1.2 metres tall with two very high steps on each side of the crossbar. It was a very sturdy construction, obviously new, and the electric fencing wire, which was well screened, was fixed across the top of the stile with a large notice warning of electrocution. So far, so good. Not a problem for fit and able oldies - I am 85 next month and my partner is 78.
However, as stated above we had three fairly large dogs with us.
The field was fenced with new sheep netting and topped with a strand of electrified wire. Sheep were in the field. Letting the dogs off their leads was not an option. Getting the dogs to jump the fence was not an option. Lifting the dogs over the stile was an impossiblity due the size of the dogs and our physical limitations due to our ages.
So the only option was to go 'trespassing' off the footpath - or walk back about two miles to a lane we had crossed previously.
We opted for the former and, with some difficulty, walked along the edge of the field precariously balanced on the top of a deep ditch and trying not to let the dogs, or us, touch the electric fence.
We made it to the corner of the field where we crossed to the adjacent field, turned ninety degrees and proceeded towards a lane from where we got back on to our intended path on the other side of the sheep field. Problem over.
Question. Does the public have a legal right to be accompanied by a dog, under control of course, on a public footpath (this was not a bridleway)?
I have searched on the net for some time and I can't find anything definitive. There are rules about control of dogs etc, but I can't find anything that says I have a legal right to have a dog with me all though one piece I read does say that a dog is treated as an 'accompaniment' in law.
Now I am not going to start any legal proceedings or anything like that, and I shall probably never pass, or repass, that way again, but I am curious to the legal situation should I be confronted by the problem some time in the future.
Thanks for reading.
Ben

 

[kenbro]

On a recent walking holiday in Lincolnshire I came across a new problem. The footpaths in the Lincolnshire Wolds are, in the main, in very good order. My partner and I, experienced treckers, walked about eight to ten miles a day over beautiful countryside on well kept and marked footpaths. We were always accompanied by our three dogs - Labradore, Golden Retiever and rescued 'mutt' who only speaks Bosnian. We had no problems whatsoever and all was well until on the last quarter of a nine miler we encountered a 'difficult' stile. Now theis was no ordinary stile. The footpath went across a sheepfield. The stile was about 1.2 metres tall with two very high steps on each side of the crossbar. It was a very sturdy construction, obviously new, and the electric fencing wire, which was well screened, was fixed across the top of the stile with a large notice warning of electrocution. So far, so good. Not a problem for fit and able oldies - I am 85 next month and my partner is 78.
However, as stated above we had three fairly large dogs with us.
The field was fenced with new sheep netting and topped with a strand of electrified wire. Sheep were in the field. Letting the dogs off their leads was not an option. Getting the dogs to jump the fence was not an option. Lifting the dogs over the stile was an impossiblity due the size of the dogs and our physical limitations due to our ages.
So the only option was to go 'trespassing' off the footpath - or walk back about two miles to a lane we had crossed previously.
We opted for the former and, with some difficulty, walked along the edge of the field precariously balanced on the top of a deep ditch and trying not to let the dogs, or us, touch the electric fence.
We made it to the corner of the field where we crossed to the adjacent field, turned ninety degrees and proceeded towards a lane from where we got back on to our intended path on the other side of the sheep field. Problem over.
Question. Does the public have a legal right to be accompanied by a dog, under control of course, on a public footpath (this was not a bridleway)?
I have searched on the net for some time and I can't find anything definitive. There are rules about control of dogs etc, but I can't find anything that says I have a legal right to have a dog with me all though one piece I read does say that a dog is treated as an 'accompaniment' in law.
Now I am not going to start any legal proceedings or anything like that, and I shall probably never pass, or repass, that way again, but I am curious to the legal situation should I be confronted by the problem some time in the future.
Thanks for reading.
Ben

A “Spell” at the gym should enable you to lift the dogs over with ease, Merlyn.
Ken.

 

[Tim.243]

On a recent walking holiday in Lincolnshire I came across a new problem. The footpaths in the Lincolnshire Wolds are, in the main, in very good order. My partner and I, experienced treckers, walked about eight to ten miles a day over beautiful countryside on well kept and marked footpaths. We were always accompanied by our three dogs - Labradore, Golden Retiever and rescued 'mutt' who only speaks Bosnian. We had no problems whatsoever and all was well until on the last quarter of a nine miler we encountered a 'difficult' stile. Now theis was no ordinary stile. The footpath went across a sheepfield. The stile was about 1.2 metres tall with two very high steps on each side of the crossbar. It was a very sturdy construction, obviously new, and the electric fencing wire, which was well screened, was fixed across the top of the stile with a large notice warning of electrocution. So far, so good. Not a problem for fit and able oldies - I am 85 next month and my partner is 78.
However, as stated above we had three fairly large dogs with us.
The field was fenced with new sheep netting and topped with a strand of electrified wire. Sheep were in the field. Letting the dogs off their leads was not an option. Getting the dogs to jump the fence was not an option. Lifting the dogs over the stile was an impossiblity due the size of the dogs and our physical limitations due to our ages.
So the only option was to go 'trespassing' off the footpath - or walk back about two miles to a lane we had crossed previously.
We opted for the former and, with some difficulty, walked along the edge of the field precariously balanced on the top of a deep ditch and trying not to let the dogs, or us, touch the electric fence.
We made it to the corner of the field where we crossed to the adjacent field, turned ninety degrees and proceeded towards a lane from where we got back on to our intended path on the other side of the sheep field. Problem over.
Question. Does the public have a legal right to be accompanied by a dog, under control of course, on a public footpath (this was not a bridleway)?
I have searched on the net for some time and I can't find anything definitive. There are rules about control of dogs etc, but I can't find anything that says I have a legal right to have a dog with me all though one piece I read does say that a dog is treated as an 'accompaniment' in law.
Now I am not going to start any legal proceedings or anything like that, and I shall probably never pass, or repass, that way again, but I am curious to the legal situation should I be confronted by the problem some time in the future.
Thanks for reading.
Ben

As far I know dogs have to under control or on a lead, regards being "under control" then not many fall into that bracket as Mine are on a lead for a short way to the marsh then they come off as we rent the land either side of it.

Apart from that they never go near foot paths as that means dealing with people who most are a pain in the rear lol

 

[Merlyn]

A “Spell” at the gym should enable you to lift the dogs over with ease, Merlyn.
Ken.

You wait till you are 85 kenbro. Your strength is the one thing you 'feel' going all the time. Felt it very early yesterday morning lifting a couple of bucks into the truck - But that is not the point - I want to know the legal situation.

 

[VSS]

Some stiles such as you describe have a small dog gate either underneath or next to them.
Your best course of action would be to write a polite letter to the footpath dept of the local council of the area where you were, congratulating them on the well marked, well maintained footpaths in their area, but drawing attention to the difficulty you faced at one point on your route and recommending a dog gate be installed at that point.

 

[kenbro]

You wait till you are 85 kenbro. Your strength is the one thing you 'feel' going all the time. Felt it very early yesterday morning lifting a couple of bucks into the truck - But that is not the point - I want to know the legal situation.

Hi Merlyn,
Only 81 but I know the feeling.
My reply was a weak attempt at humour, sorry….
“Spell” / Merlyn…
Cheers, Ken.

 

[Turnips]

I'm pretty certain there is no obligation to make provision for access for dogs, much like there is no obligation to make provision for people with disabilities etc.

From a 'normal person's' point of view - it's really annoying when you encounter obstructions blocking access for your dogs. I've never found anything my labs couldn't get across eventually, even if I have to use a jacket to cover a top strand of barbed wire etc.

From a 'farmers' point of view - we get sick of sheep and lambs escaping through stiles. We are all drystone walls around here, and if the gap in the stile is wide enough to let a lamb through I have to narrow it up with wood chocks. These get kicked out by walkers, so I have to install metal bars across the stile which admittedly make it much harder to traverse and impossible for dogs - they have to go over the wall. We've tried using gates across the stile, but they get left open, the same with dog gates. We could consider those big A-frames over the wall, but wonder what happens when somebody falls off when paddling through the winter slop...

 

[noncomplianz]

A sensible landowner would have put a dog gate lift/drop on it. That way someone who cannot lift their dog over won't make a new route through the fence or a big hole in the bottom of the stile.
Footpaths are legal for dogs on leads.

 

[Merlyn]

Hi Merlyn,
Only 81 but I know the feeling.
My reply was a weak attempt at humour, sorry….
“Spell” / Merlyn…
Cheers, Ken.

Ken, as long as we keep going we'll be ok. Just love being out there doing something countrified. Merlyn, not Merlin, is the female version on the name. I used to work for a lady called Merlyn, she was the worst bitch that I had ever come across, called one of my lab bitches after her and told her. She was very chuffed and told everyone that I had named one of my dogs after her. I told all of the other employees why I had done it. They thought it hilarious and kept going and asking her about it. The laugh went on for years. The dog Merlyn was a yellow lab and was one of the best dogs that I ever bred.
Keep taking the tablets.

 

[Tim.243]

I'm pretty certain there is no obligation to make provision for access for dogs, much like there is no obligation to make provision for people with disabilities etc.

From a 'normal person's' point of view - it's really annoying when you encounter obstructions blocking access for your dogs. I've never found anything my labs couldn't get across eventually, even if I have to use a jacket to cover a top strand of barbed wire etc.

From a 'farmers' point of view - we get sick of sheep and lambs escaping through stiles. We are all drystone walls around here, and if the gap in the stile is wide enough to let a lamb through I have to narrow it up with wood chocks. These get kicked out by walkers, so I have to install metal bars across the stile which admittedly make it much harder to traverse and impossible for dogs - they have to go over the wall. We've tried using gates across the stile, but they get left open, the same with dog gates. We could consider those big A-frames over the wall, but wonder what happens when somebody falls off when paddling through the winter slop...

Quite, it is to keep livestock in 24/7 a foot path is entered then excited that is the point of the stile, if it is cattle then a different closer is needed. In covid the footpaths expanded into the winter wheat by 30 yds as people walked on the wheat as the footpath was so sloppy. We have one foot path the land owner marked with a fence and line of trees it is in a direct line with both footpath posts

 

[Lloyd90]

Genuine question; why does it matter?

As you say, you probably won’t go there again, and even if you had a right, you aren’t going to do anything.

Just for theory:

If it came down to it, I would imagine the landowner would say if you were more physically able you could have lifted your dog over and been on your way.

Also if you had a smaller or less dogs would could have probably done that also.

Your inability to lift your dogs, have them trained to jump over the fence, or let them off the lead without them running off chasing stock is down to you.

The landowner has not restricted you.

Similarly what if you or another person was physically unable to cross the fence? Is that the landowners fault?

This is not a pop at you by the way. Just trying to assist and point out some facts.

I just say however I am impressed with your physical fitness and walking at your age. Brilliant, keep going as you use it or lose it without a doubt!

 

[Heym SR20]

Suspect the OP has already found but here is Government guidance.

Firstly the landowner’s obligations

Public rights of way: landowner responsibilities

As the owner or occupier of land with a public right of way across it, you must keep the route visible and not obstruct or endanger users.

www.gov.uk

Secondly from the public’s viewpoint

Rights of way and accessing land

Rights of way and right to roam - access rights of way, open access and permissive access land, use common lands, the Countryside Code, report problems.

www.gov.uk

We all have a right to use public rights of way and to access these with a dog. Bridleways you are can access with a Horse as well as a dog.

It is a criminal offence to block a public right of way, and if right of way is ploughed up, it needs to be reinstated.

 

[Scotty99]

From what you have described the stile is meant to be a deterrent to walkers, presumably to prevent access through the sheep field. Clearly this is against the obligations of the landowner to not prevent or discourage access over a public right of way. Perhaps you should have taken a photograph of the offending stile and sent it to the local council responsible for public footpaths.

 

[Merlyn]

I'm pretty certain there is no obligation to make provision for access for dogs, much like there is no obligation to make provision for people with disabilities etc.

From a 'normal person's' point of view - it's really annoying when you encounter obstructions blocking access for your dogs. I've never found anything my labs couldn't get across eventually, even if I have to use a jacket to cover a top strand of barbed wire etc.

From a 'farmers' point of view - we get sick of sheep and lambs escaping through stiles. We are all drystone walls around here, and if the gap in the stile is wide enough to let a lamb through I have to narrow it up with wood chocks. These get kicked out by walkers, so I have to install metal bars across the stile which admittedly make it much harder to traverse and impossible for dogs - they have to go over the wall. We've tried using gates across the stile, but they get left open, the same with dog gates. We could consider those big A-frames over the wall, but wonder what happens when somebody falls off when paddling through the winter slop...

This is exactly what I assume the situation to be. Same, as you say, as for disabled ramblers.
The joke is that my partner has six retired sheep at home and they chase the three dogs around. The dogs won't go anywhere near the sheep. Through the summer we have fattening lambs as well. Thanks for your reply.

Genuine question; why does it matter?

As you say, you probably won’t go there again, and even if you had a right, you aren’t going to do anything.

Just for theory:

If it came down to it, I would imagine the landowner would say if you were more physically able you could have lifted your dog over and been on your way.

Also if you had a smaller or less dogs would could have probably done that also.

Your inability to lift your dogs, have them trained to jump over the fence, or let them off the lead without them running off chasing stock is down to you.

The landowner has not restricted you.

Similarly what if you or another person was physically unable to cross the fence? Is that the landowners fault?

This is not a pop at you by the way. Just trying to assist and point out some facts.

I just say however I am impressed with your physical fitness and walking at your age. Brilliant, keep going as you use it or lose it without a doubt!

Why does it matter you ask. It doesn't. I just have the sort of mind that asks me questions like that. Usually, as in this case, when I am sitting in a highseat waiting for an unwary munty to come along. Curiosity killed the proverbial cat and it has got me into trouble on occasions.
At home we have sheep, just a few, of our own and take in fattening lambs through the summer months as well. Luckily we don't have the footpaths.
Our dogs are all very well trained and, just for the record, I was a keeper for thirty years so well understand the problem of un trained dogs and un trained owners.
Re the fitness I am doing a sponored half marathon in August so I am in strict training at the moment. My partner is doing it too.

 

[Ratel]

Talk about jumping through.hoops to please walkers. We recently had a moan that footpaths through crops had not been sprayed one metre wide. If walkers stuck to rules, kept dogs on leads etc things would be far better, but no, off piste is better for them it seems and let dogs run riot.

 

[Merlyn]

Suspect the OP has already found but here is Government guidance.

Firstly the landowner’s obligations

Public rights of way: landowner responsibilities

As the owner or occupier of land with a public right of way across it, you must keep the route visible and not obstruct or endanger users.

www.gov.uk

Secondly from the public’s viewpoint

Rights of way and accessing land

Rights of way and right to roam - access rights of way, open access and permissive access land, use common lands, the Countryside Code, report problems.

www.gov.uk

We all have a right to use public rights of way and to access these with a dog. Bridleways you are can access with a Horse as well as a dog.

It is a criminal offence to block a public right of way, and if right of way is ploughed up, it needs to be reinstated.

Thanks for the above. Where does it say that you can access these with a dog? I can't find it written anywhere.

 

[Dunwaters]

An old shooting partner used to keep a wire cutter in his bag, he used to snip fences to let his lab through then twist it back together.

 

[Heym SR20]

Thanks for the above. Where does it say that you can access these with a dog? I can't find it written anywhere.

In the bit on open access it specifically mentions dogs.

As regards on footpaths dogs will fall under the category of it has always been done, and specifically a footpath is there if it has been in use for at least 20 years with no objections from the landowner. Marked public footpaths and bridle paths are public rights of way in the same way as a road, with the exception that you cannot use a vehicle.

Also have a read of

The Countryside Code: advice for countryside visitors

www.gov.uk

 

[WalkedUp]

https://www.shropshire.gov.uk/media/6355/pgn03-dogs-on-public-rights-of-way.pdf

It appears that it is the person not that dog that has a right of access. My dogs have always been trained to jump over or climb under obstacles (up to 6ft) on command. I despair when I see people struggle to lift their heavily obese dogs into cars or over fences. When they cannot jump anymore it is time for the vet.

 

[Trickyd66]

https://www.shropshire.gov.uk/media/6355/pgn03-dogs-on-public-rights-of-way.pdf

It appears that it is the person not that dog that has a right of access. My dogs have always been trained to jump over or climb under obstacles (up to 6ft) on command. I despair when I see people struggle to lift their heavily obese dogs into cars or over fences. When they cannot jump anymore it is time for the vet.

Beat me to it.... the link, not your other observations