You obviously missed my comment about "more tools in the box now".
?More vets fees
Tail docking a spaniel?
- Thread starter Apthorpe
- Start date
Yes, that's why you get a whole breeders' association involved, with a number of breeders collaborating.
SikaSeeker
Well-Known Member
It’d take too long, you’re realistically not going to know what type of dog you have until it’s at least 4. You’re going to bred for working ability, not the bitch/dog with the short tail. As the saying goes “pretty is what pretty does”.
I’d bet that there’ll never be spaniels about with 30/40% short tails from selective breeding
I’d bet that there’ll never be spaniels about with 30/40% short tails from selective breeding
There never will be, if there's not the appetite for it.
But I still maintain that it could be done, in far less time than you think, using the genetic selection methods available to us now that weren't available in the past.
But it would take a collaborative effort to do it, so unless involvement in such a sceme became a mandatory requirement of pedigree registration for the whole population of a particular breed it's unlikely to happen. But a forward-thinking association could do it. And in my opinion, should do it. You'd not end up with tails as short as traditionally docked tails, but they'd be short enough.
Only because I googled it, but seemingly there's about 7or 8 dog breeds that are born with no tails. Would be interesting to see some of these brought into working Spaniel cross breeding. Brittany Spaniels, Corgis,French Bulldogs, Australian Shepards, Rottweilers and Boston Terriers. Personally docked Spaniels are the only working Spaniel I'd have.
Introgression of the short tailed gene from Brittany Spaniels into Springer Spaniels would speed things up a bit, for anyone who thought my earlier mentioned method (ie, no crossbreeding) would be too slow. But not all Brittany Spaniels have naturally short tails, so the bloodlines would have to be carefully chosen.
Genetics I think. That's what i made of it. Google what I did. I didn't know if tailless or tail less are real words . Not looking for an argument. Working Spaniels should be docked .
Unless born with a naturally short tail..... Working Spaniels should be docked .
Martiniblack577
Well-Known Member
Not sure if this has been posted already:
basc.org.uk
Tail docking
In recent years laws have been introduced in England, Wales and Northern Ireland restricting tail docking of dogs.
basc.org.uk
jimmy milnes
Well-Known Member
Makes me laugh that vets won't dock a pup at the legal gap of 3 to 5 days old,
But are more than happy to take a rake of money off you to sedate the dog "risky in itself" and take its nuts off.
Is that not mutilation too. ?
But are more than happy to take a rake of money off you to sedate the dog "risky in itself" and take its nuts off.
Is that not mutilation too. ?
Dunwaters
Well-Known Member
You’re underestimating the difficulty.
What you suggest may be simple, but it’s not easy.
You can select for tail length but you’ll still have to primarily select for working ability or you’ll end up with a strain of dogs that no one wants, except maybe the show ring brigade, because they are less capable than their long tailed counterparts.
You’ll have to prove that there’s no loss of working ability by competing successfully in KC licensed field trials, which means that you have to choose from pedigree dogs of your chosen breed, with no outcrosses or you can’t show or compete.
I’m too old to get involved, but I wish you every success in your endeavours to show us how easy it is.
I may even buy one, provided you meet the goals, a naturally short tail, no loss of working ability, together with KC registration and recognition.
You need the whole package.
2 out of 3 may not be bad, but it’s not going to be good enough here.
Dunwaters
Well-Known Member
They’ll also happily remove dew claws…
Lloyd90
Well-Known Member
Is the sheep breeding world breeding sheep to have the ability of a trained springer spaniel?
Or are the sheep breeders looking for animals that simply have to survive until they make a good weight for slaughter.
Selecting characteristics such as gaining good weight / fat and being resistant to pest is great but we currently have probably the best dog trainers / field triallers in the world.
They come all around the world for the championships and the winning dogs are often bought by Americans or Scandi’s for big money.
Even these top trialling men who are as as say likely the best of the best, with the best facilities, training and shooting ground one can get, still fail to breed every animals to a top FTCH standard.
They are unable to guarantee that when breeding 2 animals together the pups will get the exact characteristics they want.
It’s hard enough breeding animals got their intended use, do you genuinely think they can also add in a bunch of other things?
Or they could just dock them like they’ve done for hundreds of years without issue.
It is a mutilation, but permitted in the Mutilation Regulations.
Most of us don't like docking because a) it hurts b) it is of questionable benefit
All animal sectors are reviewing these historic (traditional dare I say) mutilations as we learn more about the harm and have evidence to question the tradition.
sako751sg
Well-Known Member
It's the way the vetinary world is going,more catering for pets by folk lacking common sense.
Luckily here we still have one or two that can actually see further than their nose and know what benefits docking has and can actually admit it.
Lloyd90
Well-Known Member
If the benefit was so questionable, why did law makers go back to the Scottish ban 10 years later and add in an exemption for working dogs?
The truth is there was considerable evidence presented by vets and others with the animal welfare in mind.
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