IPCC complaint

[Mickeydredd]

They are but as I said, depending non the size of the FLD and how busy they are it could take a long time especially if the FLD plans to keep BAU services running.

Priority means priority.

In the case this thread relates to, the FAC holder has had his guns removed due to a a historic incident which did not even involve him personally and which was proven to be a false claim and which did not impact his previous renewal. It is absolutely ridiculous that his renewal should be delayed to this extent, and his case should be at the top of the pile for review and process irrespective of how "busy" the team are, i.e. a priority.

Also as soon as any such allegation is found by the police to be false, there should be no marker on the FAC holder's file.

 

[Greenmist]

If its the same a mine it will be renewed from the expiry of your last so you will be renewing in less than 5 years. You at least got a section 7, i was with out a ticket for 4 or 5 months, but the flm is allowed to lie and back date the ticket. I assume to fudge the figures

Regarding the back dating, I mentioned the same when mine was returned after and extension and sect 7, the reason given to me was the new certificate has to run from the previous one or you are in possession of a firearm/s without a valid fac, when I pointed out the extension expiry should be the new date and the delay was due to them not me, there was an awkward silence and then various acts of parliament were blamed

 

[suburban bushwacker]

Please could you tell me more about this request?

you have the right to request any and all information an organisation holds about you, IIRC they are permitted to charge you a nominal admin fee, used to be £10. if they withhold anything the fines are quite draconian. Ive not done it in years, but this seems like it might clear up any confusion

 

[Mike L]

you have the right to request any and all information an organisation holds about you, IIRC they are permitted to charge you a nominal admin fee, used to be £10. if they withhold anything the fines are quite draconian. Ive not done it in years, but this seems like it might clear up any confusion

Surely that doesn’t apply to the police?

 

[suburban bushwacker]

Surely that doesn’t apply to the police?

ACRO Criminal Records Office

www.acro.police.uk

 

[scotch_egg]

Surely that doesn’t apply to the police?

It does apply to the police. They have a certain amount of time to comply. However there are certain caveats that would preclude information from being provided.

 

[PEA]

Regarding the back dating, I mentioned the same when mine was returned after and extension and sect 7, the reason given to me was the new certificate has to run from the previous one or you are in possession of a firearm/s without a valid fac, when I pointed out the extension expiry should be the new date and the delay was due to them not me, there was an awkward silence and then various acts of parliament were blamed

I had the same thing after 18months of delay for my renewal. When I said it should run from now not from when my original date I received no email back.

 

[Jagare]

Reading through this thread makes me glad we have got a gun licence for life. We can of course loose the licence if convicted of drunk driving, violence or threats of violence, etc. As it should be

 

[Greenmist]

Reading through this thread makes me glad we have got a gun licence for life. We can of course loose the licence if convicted of drunk driving, violence or threats of violence, etc. As it should be

@Conor O'Gorman , can you start mentioning this system, why should it not work in this country

 

[Conor O'Gorman]

@Conor O'Gorman , can you start mentioning this system, why should it not work in this country

I don't know what this system is but each country across the world has its own system in place and all have pros and cons. We have systems that differ between forces in England and Wales. Another system in Scotland for Police Scotland and considering devolution on airgun law. And another process in NI for PSNI and devolved powers on firearms law. Other processes in place in Isle of Man, Jersey and Guernsey.

 

[Apthorpe]

I don't know what this system is but each country across the world has its own system in place and all have pros and cons. We have systems that differ between forces in England and Wales. Another system in Scotland for Police Scotland and considering devolution on airgun law. And another process in NI for PSNI and devolved powers on firearms law. Other processes in place in Isle of Man, Jersey and Guernsey.

It's a fair guess that a member in Sweden is referring to the Swedish system, but frankky almost any other system would be less dysfunctional than the mess the Home Office and Police have made over the past decade. The measures introduced over the past decade are completely ineffective, unfit for purpose and have ruined the system. There's very little sign that it's done much good for public safety and sooner or later there are gpinh to be major disasters arising from the paralysis and inability of the system to work in such a way as to leave space for the police officers to use any intelligence or to investigate sensibly and rapidly.

Fxxxing shambles in this country. Like the NHS, we have an establishment delusionally priding itself on how lucky we are to have a shitshow for public services.

 

[Stalker62]

Fxxxing shambles in this country. Like the NHS, we have an establishment delusionally priding itself on how lucky we are to have a shitshow for public services.

Perhaps if you (are physically able) spend some time getting out into the countryside, with a rifle, shotgun, dog or friends; the world would not always appear so terrible?

 

[Apthorpe]

Perhaps if you (are physically able) spend some time getting out into the countryside, with a rifle, shotgun, dog or friends; the world would not always appear so terrible?

The world isn't terrible. The state of government and public administration in this country is. This degree of comprehensive failure doesn't affect other places, it's not a precondition, it is the choice and consequence of the disgraceful quality of and incomprehensible waste of management and provision in our public services.

That said, I'd have a lot more free time and disposable income to go out shooting or whatever if I derived my income from the state payroll or pension systems instead of having massive quantities of my money wasted on my behalf.

 

[SunnyDays]

I would rather live under the UK regime than the USA where there is a "mass shooting" (defined as 3 or more victims) every three days, and gun related crime is through the roof!
Not going to get any better under Trump.

I have been to the US over 40 times, but no more.......I want to return from my trips in my Barbour, not a 'pine overcoat'!!!!!

 

[Dickie]

I agree that is does look 'clumsy'.

However.

Each FLM takes responsibility for 'their' issues. If I was the decision-maker, I too would wish to review the entire information held, and base 'my' decision on what I felt. I would not seek to rely on what any of my predecessors thought.

So you’re saying I’m more thorough than the previous person and they weren’t correct showing once again a lack of consistency in firearms licensing.
Surely if you were fit 5 years ago and there has been no changes in your behaviour you are still fit, and there should be no delay in your renewal.

 

[gixer1]

The world isn't terrible. The state of government and public administration in this country is. This degree of comprehensive failure doesn't affect other places, it's not a precondition, it is the choice and consequence of the disgraceful quality of and incomprehensible waste of management and provision in our public services.

That said, I'd have a lot more free time and disposable income to go out shooting or whatever if I derived my income from the state payroll or pension systems instead of having massive quantities of my money wasted on my behalf.

Yup, it would certainly be easier to get out if I’d been in the public sector, was able to retire early with a walloping great pension….alas, we are not all so lucky.

This story is a shambles from the police side, well done for conducting yourself in the manner you did.

I noticed there was even a suggestion that due to the way you reacted they may be correct - what absolute nonsense….only a fool would suggest a person cannot react to incompetent people waking you at 2am, as far as I’m aware getting angry is not illegal yet….

 

[AGR]

If its the same a mine it will be renewed from the expiry of your last so you will be renewing in less than 5 years. You at least got a section 7, i was with out a ticket for 4 or 5 months, but the flm is allowed to lie and back date the ticket. I assume to fudge the figures

My 'ticket' from D&C was dated from the day they posted it to me, after many, many months, that seemed fair to me.

 

[gixer1]

So you’re saying I’m more thorough than the previous person and they weren’t correct showing once again a lack of consistency in firearms licensing.
Surely if you were fit 5 years ago and there has been no changes in your behaviour you are still fit, and there should be no delay in your renewal.

God forbid your GP should change, or you have a disagreement with one of your referees…

The system is broken, anyone with any sense can see that and the Plymouth shooting happened because of incompetence and a poor system, yet the punishment for this is being administered to the user of the system instead of the people who apply it.

 

[Jagare]

I don't know what this system is but each country across the world has its own system in place and all have pros and cons. We have systems that differ between forces in England and Wales. Another system in Scotland for Police Scotland and considering devolution on airgun law. And another process in NI for PSNI and devolved powers on firearms law. Other processes in place in Isle of Man, Jersey and Guernsey.

There is no governmental will to change the way firearms laws are administered in the UK. There is also no joined up thinking about virtually anything in the UK. When it comes to UK firearms laws and field sports, it strikes me that even those who are participants can't agree amongst themselves. Don't hold your breath thinking anything is going to change for the better in the future. I was born and lived in England for 53 years, had shotguns since I was 16, and had FAC for 33 years before moving to Sweden. My dealing with the authorities here from day one regarding importing and using my firearms has been nothing but cordial and hassle free.
I do look back at the UK with a sad smile at the complete mess the UK has become.
Now, being a Swedish citizen, there is no chance I'll ever movie back to the UK. The thought of having to apply for a FAC and going through all the crap that has been written about in this thread would take away my will to live.
I was a WAGBI/ BASC from the age of 16 to 53.
Well that's my morning waffling out the way and I'm off out to feed our ducks, hopefully get one more duck shoot before the water freezes over and give the lab pup a bit of training.

 

[Stalker62]

So you’re saying I’m more thorough than the previous person and they weren’t correct showing once again a lack of consistency in firearms licensing.
Surely if you were fit 5 years ago and there has been no changes in your behaviour you are still fit, and there should be no delay in your renewal.

Of course there is a 'lack of consistency' in firearms licensing - because the decision is made by humans.

The system is not perfect (because it is designed and operated by humans), and there have been some terrible decisions made by FLDs: but my point still stands.

If I was the FLM, and I was reviewing an application, I would seek to review all the intelligence, and previous decisions that were held.

I am upcoming for renewal myself in the New Year. I fully expect them to review, all the data that is held against my name.

Fun fact.

I am going 'old school' with a paper application, a cheque, and photograph, so am already expecting fun and games.