Got arrested this morning

[Bo Diddley]

Sadly I never thought to. They were very civil and I didn't blame them but I do blame a system that lets it happen. I guess the police will still have the footage and must have logged the incident. Is it something that one can legally request?

Yes, it is.
I wouldn't bother with the IOPC, it will get you nowhere as they will kick it into the long grass.
If you want to claim compensation that could amount to a few grand go down the civil compensation case route, you can Google that.

 

[Silvius]

If you want the police to look into how they treated you then make a complaint to the police, not the Stalking Directory. These days making a complaint couldn’t be easier. You can cut and paste this post into an online complaints form on your police force’s website.
If you want to escalate this and waste more people’s time then you can register a complaint with the Independent Office for Police Conduct (IOPC).
If you’d like to save time I can tell you what both the police and the IOPC will tell you. When a member of the public calls the police to say they have seen suspicious individuals with guns the armed response teams have to respond. It sounds like they dealt with you correctly.

Just out of interest, how would you like the police to deal with armed poachers? How would they know you weren’t poachers?

In Sussex we can email the police control room before we go stalking to prevent this happening (shooting.notification@sussex.police.uk). Not sure whether Wiltshire offer something similar?

I am asking for advice rather than having a rant. I also want to make people aware that this is happening and should not be acceptable. I may complain to the police but if I do, I would like to know on what grounds I should complain and it may also help to know who else who can exert pressure might be interested in the story. Sometimes asking the police to police themselves isn't the ideal answer, its asking whoever polices the police. The police are doing the job that they are told to do and these guys were professional and polite.

I think a proportionate response might be best when dealing with suspected poaching. Why do they suspect poaching? "Has gun" is not a good enough answer. If poaching in the area is rife and large armed gangs are about (as is actually the case very close to the land I own where there has been armed poaching recently but is not the case near this permission), then if a large gang is sited when the landowner has already said only one or two people have permission, this response would be excellent. If its in an area with no poaching reports and its a couple of chaps who appear legit from the reg no, then maybe an unarmed officer waits by the car for a chat when they arrive back and they call the landowner together? Any FAC holder has proven they are law abiding to get the FAC. Even if a FAC holder were poaching, why assume he would turn his gun on the police to add to the day's woe? If I were caught speeding back from a range day, would I be swatted because I have a rifle? A faint suspicion of law breaking does not mean that you are about to do violence.

 

[WalkedUp]

This morning my friend and I had loaded weapons pointed at us, were told to walk with our hands in the air, were handcuffed, were told "you are both under arrest under suspicion of possession of a firearm", our clothes were searched searched and my car was briefly examined visually inside before "Thank you for your cooperation, sorry for the trouble but you will understand we have to investigate reports" This is not on and I would like advice as to how to stop this happening to others.

I would like to say from the start that the officers involved were very polite and I thought them all nice guys but the protocol that allowed this to happen is not fair or proportionate and I think if it is allowed to be considered as OK, then we are on a slippery slope to being guilty until proven innocent, which is a bad position to be in with a gun in your hand.

Of course we had permission, of course we didn't point guns at or near anyone. If fact we didn't point a gun at all -no deer was even seen on the permission where I have shot for years. The policeman in charge told me that he didn't know till they arrived at the scene and he took my registration that I had a FAC. To that point if you want to bring 6 or 7 cars full of armed officers and a dog team to a report of "2 males with a long barrelled weapon seen going into (private) wood (in the countryside with no footpath, exiting car parked within woodland edge from woodland facing side and walking in)" then OK if you can justify the resource allocation but from that point on, when nothing suspicious had been done and I was clearly licensed this was surely heavy handed? Surely a quiet word with an unarmed officer when we emerged from the wood to check we had permission would have been enough? Even then whose business is it to check up on law abiding citizens hunting with a weapon held for only hunting unless there has been poaching in the area or suspicion of poaching? Why should hunting be itself a suspicious activity? Is taking cash out of a bank suspicious in itself? Is driving a car away suspicious in itself?

Did I need to be arrested by armed men? did I need to be handcuffed or searched? The officer in charge said "Sorry we can't be taking chances" but if that sort of thinking is allowed to take root we will all be pushed further and further into corners afraid to assert our rights do do what we have worked hard to be given lawful permission to do. What is suspicious about someone who holds a rifle only for deer stalking to be seen deer stalking? I said to the officer "There are thousands of people out on this Christmas holiday Saturday legally shooting. Would it be right to arrest anyone seen in a field carrying a gun on a sling on their shoulder?" He just said they couldn't take chances and I should phone the police to tell them I am going hunting in advance. This is the state going too far in my opinion.

I expect a number of replies to say "You must have done something suspicious" and "We must all just accept this sort of control and interference in the interests of public safety" but I feel this is going too far. Had it been a report of drug use or burglary the police would likely never have even turned up but more people die from drugs and criminal lifestyles than from guns in this country every year, a lot more. There is a witch hunt out for guns and country sports. If we accept this as OK because we are all too scared to risk going on the naughty list next time we want to renew, where does this end?

In the interests of my fellow sportsmen, I would ideally like someone in charge to simply accept that this was a heavy handed approach and to revise the protocol. I don't know if I really want to go through the misery of pushing for this but right now I feel I should. Can anyone advise me how I would best go about this please?

Thanks

Similar situation for me in 2022. Very unprofessional police response. I didn’t make a complaint against my force to avoid renewal etc issues. Selfish I know.

I’ve had half a dozen police interactions in which firearms were discussed or present, and all others have been positive.

Held at gun point

Recently I was out pigeon shooting on a block of winter barley that had been cut a few days earlier. At lunch time I popped into my car to go and get some supplies, leaving my buddy with my S2 shotgun on loan. I took my dog and S1 .223” with me in the boot, but left everything else. As I was head...

forums.pigeonwatch.co.uk

 

[Silvius]

Turkeys voting for Christmas….that’s what the chumps having to call in every time they leave the house are.

This is kind of how I feel about it. If we take this, then what next? How much further into the corner do we get pushed. Its like we are doing something socially unacceptable. I get the idea and I want to work with the police but if shooters are always taking a step back then where do we end up left?

 

[Silvius]

Similar situation for me in 2022. Very unprofessional police response. I didn’t make a complaint against my force to avoid renewal etc issues. Selfish I know.

I’ve had half a dozen police interactions in which firearms were discussed or present, and all others have been positive.

Held at gun point

Recently I was out pigeon shooting on a block of winter barley that had been cut a few days earlier. At lunch time I popped into my car to go and get some supplies, leaving my buddy with my S2 shotgun on loan. I took my dog and S1 .223” with me in the boot, but left everything else. As I was head...

forums.pigeonwatch.co.uk

View attachment 399075

Sorry to hear that. I wonder if a collation of such stories sent to the right people might help?

 

[WalkedUp]

This is kind of how I feel about it. If we take this, then what next? How much further into the corner do we get pushed. Its like we are doing something socially unacceptable. I get the idea and I want to work with the police but if shooters are always taking a step back then where do we end up left?

The police have suggested this to me numerous times, but also when I asked if they will still come out to a malicious report they say yes, we attend every firearm incident. I only call in when I know it is going to be a neighbour issue so maybe twice a year. I am out twice a week at least on average.

 

[jall55]

Can’t wait to hear how happy folk are when a Sab calls in multiple armed men acting aggressively when they crash a pheasant shoot.

Indeed - we always advise the police we are shooting
Saves the hassle

 

[WalkedUp]

Sorry to hear that. I wonder if a collation of such stories sent to the right people might help?

It would certainly anonymise the complaints

 

[Greenmist]

I am asking for advice rather than having a rant. I also want to make people aware that this is happening and should not be acceptable. I may complain to the police but if I do, I would like to know on what grounds I should complain and it may also help to know who else who can exert pressure might be interested in the story. Sometimes asking the police to police themselves isn't the ideal answer, its asking whoever polices the police. The police are doing the job that they are told to do and these guys were professional and polite.

I think a proportionate response might be best when dealing with suspected poaching. Why do they suspect poaching? "Has gun" is not a good enough answer. If poaching in the area is rife and large armed gangs are about (as is actually the case very close to my land where there has been armed poaching recently), then if a large gang is sited when the landowner has already said only one or two people have permission, this response would be excellent. If its in an area with no poaching reports and its a couple of chaps who appear legit from the reg no, then maybe an unarmed officer waits by the car for a chat when they arrive back and they call the landowner together? Any FAC holder has proven they are law abiding to get the FAC. Even if a FAC holder were poaching, why assume he would turn his gun on the police to add to the day's woe? If I were caught speeding back from a range day, would I be swatted because I have a rifle? A faint suspicion of law breaking does not mean that you are about to do violence.

The police I assume from what you've said were responding to the report of a firearm, as you have said they don't know until they arrive what they are dealing with, the chat with the unarmed officer sounds like a great scenario, what if it wasn't you? What if that unarmed officer was shot by a nutter with an unregistered firearm? The police can only act on the information given, they will have SOP's they will follow.
Sadly, I think what you are upset with, is public perception of hunting, of which I agree with you totally

 

[finnbear270]

If you want the police to look into how they treated you then make a complaint to the police, not the Stalking Directory. These days making a complaint couldn’t be easier. You can cut and paste this post into an online complaints form on your police force’s website.
If you want to escalate this and waste more people’s time then you can register a complaint with the Independent Office for Police Conduct (IOPC).
If you’d like to save time I can tell you what both the police and the IOPC will tell you. When a member of the public calls the police to say they have seen suspicious individuals with guns the armed response teams have to respond. It sounds like they dealt with you correctly.

Just out of interest, how would you like the police to deal with armed poachers? How would they know you weren’t poachers?

In Sussex we can email the police control room before we go stalking to prevent this happening (shooting.notification@sussex.police.uk). Not sure whether Wiltshire offer something similar?

Comedy sketch? e mail control room, do you have to inform them if you are taking a dump in the wood?

 

[WalkedUp]

The police dispatcher, and their prior training, should be able to prepare the armed response officers that when called out into farmland for reports of someone possessing a gun that they are likely to be attending a situation in which a legally held firearm is in lawful use. Therefore the “high-ready” position should never be the default.

Yes, the police should attend if they deem it an automatic risk. Yes, the should be armed. No, they should not put civilians’ lives at risk through poor gun handling and lack of adequate training.

 

[slider]

Because it’s unnecessary and has no effect on how the police would react.

If folk are happy enough to be bundled with criminals and terrorists then fine.

Oh but it does affect how the police react.
I have a bit of stalking in commercial forestry right next to a town and always inform the Police when going out (a simple email and I get an "incident number" back in a few minutes).
I was once out when I met a member of the public who quickly scurried of and I saw him get his phone out.
A few minutes later I got a call from the Police asking me to confirm my location. Job done.

 

[M@tt]

Was it the police's right to speculate when we had not actually done anything suspicious? Surely the presumption is that the citizen is innocent and if he is not acting suspiciously you let him carry on unmolested?

I only answered the question asked.

But, in this instance I have no idea what was said in the initial report. It could have been a proportional response to the report, maybe a quiet evening at the station or an over reaction.
No idea without the full facts.

What I do take from this is the matter didn't escalate and in the end after a short while everyone went about their business safely.

 

[WalkedUp]

Oh but it does affect how the police react.
I have a bit of stalking in commercial forestry right next to a town and always inform the Police when going out (a simple email and I get an "incident number" back in a few minutes).
I was once out when I met a member of the public who quickly scurried of and I saw him get his phone out.
A few minutes later I got a call from the Police asking me to confirm my location. Job done.

Seems a good use of the system. I also get an incident number but I am told by my local constabularies that the police will still attend.

 

[Siggy]

I'm sure you could make a civil claim for unlawful arrest or detention, did you get every officer's shoulder number and request copies of all the body-worn video footage they took?
Can you tell I've watched plenty of YouTube auditing comedy videos

why is it unlawful? pretty sure if the police are investigating a reported offence involving firearms they have the power to arrest while it is being clarified . Can't be bothered the read PACE but pretty sure it's in there.

 

[finnbear270]

Definately an arrestable offence here.

 

[palmer_mike]

Turkeys voting for Christmas….that’s what the chumps having to call in every time they leave the house are.

Agreed,
As I said on the lead ban thread: Things which we offer voluntarily have a habit of becoming mandatory

 

[cjm1066]

Please speak to your shooting organisation, being arrested with a firearm is likely to impact your next renewal.

Get this resolved professionally for everyone's benefit.

 

[Ronin]

A simple check if your vehicle, your address or yourself would have established legal ownership of firearms

Absolutely no need to “detain” anyone

 

[Greenmist]

Please speak to your shooting organisation, being arrested with a firearm is likely to impact your next renewal.

Get this resolved professionally for everyone's benefit.

No it won't, the op won't even have to disclose it. Being arrested is part of the investigative process. He wasn't convicted of anything