Fixed power scopes. Old Kahles or S&B or new GPO?

[Heym SR20]

Makes sense. But you hear a lot about modern coatings and how they improve light transmission () or is that to make up for the glass quality? I can see how it helps with reflections, flare etc, although how adding something to the surface let’s more light through is harder to understand.

Coatings are a cheap way of improving cheap glass / plastics.

High quality lenses have been around for a long time. But they required expensive glass and then a lot of skill and time to make.

Top end glass has not really improved. But the lower end optically are now so much better - and thats what sells.

But optics are just one part of the scope. More important for consistent accuracy is the quality of assembly, especially all the aiming devices under the turrets. It’s here that quality still counts.

Leupolds have always been very good scopes and have a good reputation for durability and ability to hold zero. Difference between a Leupold and say S&B is the image. Leupold to my eyes seem to have a flat almost matt image. S&B is bright and glossy. And I have always found Leupolds to be fussy about the eye position. They have a short eye box. German / Austrian scopes seem to be more fore-giving.

American hunting laws don’t allow shooting at first and last light - I think legal shooting starts and stops at sunrise and sunset.

In Germany they shoot a lot of Boar under the moon, and until recently you were not allowed to use any form of artificial light or image intensifying device. But with a good scope you don’t really need that - with a 6x42 or 8x56 and good 4A reticle shooting Boar at night on grass, stubble or against snow is not an issue.

 

[NickJ]

Personally I'd buy a used S&B 8x56, they are so robust they last for ever so used is fine, for the extra £100 I'd go German over Hungarian, you'll be glad of the very slight extra light gathering performance which I assume is relevant if you are going for an illuminated reticle

 

[Essexsussex]

Personally I'd buy a used S&B 8x56, they are so robust they last for ever so used is fine, for the extra £100 I'd go German over Hungarian, you'll be glad of the very slight extra light gathering performance which I assume is relevant if you are going for an illuminated reticle

i always wondered if they were different - mine is west Germany

 

[matt308]

All really interesting and helpful. Thank you. German S&B 6x sounds like a good investment.

I’ve often wondered why US scopes and reviews don’t refer to low light performance. They seem only secondarily interested in glass quality in general.

The Leupold has been ok but the other evening I just could not make out a muntjac (seen in the thermal), albeit in moderate cover, and I thought a scope with better contrast and light transmission might have helped. Either that or an Alpex!

But I may come back here when I have some experience with the GPO.

 

[NickJ]

i always wondered if they were different - mine is west Germany

I have to admit it's only based on personal experience, I used a Hungarian S&B very happily for many years but when I bought another rifle with a German version on the only difference I noticed was at first/last light, that of course is the measure of the best glass mind of course

 

[25 Sharps]

Six of one......
The advantage with the GPO is that it is a brand new scope with a 10 yr warranty??
The Kahles is possibly that old already.
Kahles have excellent glass though

See for me, Schmidt and zeiss glass works better for my eyes than Kahles.

 

[wanderer]

Nearly 20 years a 6x42 S&B on my 308 BSA cf2 and havnt found it wanting.
The good thing is theres nothing to mess around with, just point and shoot.
The reticule allows for approximate distance judging of Roe.
Shot Roe to 230yds with this setup.

Having said all that, WTF have i just put on a Zeiss 3-12 x56!
Its a FFP reticule and pretty much matches the S&B so still OK for distance judging whatever the magnification.
Apart from the fact it is a bulkier scope the increased height is not the best as my cheek is almost off the stock now.
Lets see how i get on.
I can still revert back!

 

[6.5-06 TIKKA]

I know the 8x56 is not really lightweight but simply the best.
6x42 is very good.
The 7x50 schmidt bender is the compromise...

 

[bbell]

It’s typically 30min before and after sunrise and sunset in most states.

 

[bbell]

I would be curious to see how durable the GPO is. The S&B is well known to take a knocking keep on going.

 

[JTO]

i always wondered if they were different - mine is west Germany

Mine is also made in Germany.

 

[matt308]

I would be curious to see how durable the GPO is. The S&B is well known to take a knocking keep on going.

If I’m still stalking when the warranty expires I’ll count it as a win!

 

[Andy RV]

I’ve found the Swarovski 8x50 to be the sweet spot, they’re a similar length to a S&B 6x42 however only 400g.

The S&B 8x56 while very good optically is a big and heavy scope.

I’d like to try the S&B 7x50 however they very rarely come up for sale.

 

[Karhumies]

as for older fixed powers vs modern midrange.

i hunt entire nights in winter and owned a few midrange scopes(at least midrange to me)

meopta meosport
meopta optika6
tried a few vixens.

compared to those my zeiss 8x56 wins hands down on sheer visibility on a starry night. It comes down to detail wich i intuitively tho ignorantly attribute to fewer lenses. With the 500-700 euro variables i find that regardless of "brightness" the image gets this white noise effect, like looking at things trough a filter.

but in features, eyebox, dialing ability, fog resistance etc the Zeiss is clearly older technology. GPO interests me tho. I have asked alot, read alot and even asked S&B and i cant seem to get a good answer on what kind of glass) coating is in there nowadays. I would assume the same as a new made klassik variable. But for all i know it could be 30 year old coatings with a new jacket and some eyebox upgrades. They wont even state a light transmission % as far as i can find.

GPO is a new one for me so iam definitely interested to hear how it holds up.

Never found any optical issue in old fixed powers tho. Now variables... my S&B klassik is great until i have a street light or full moon in the background and see that white blot of death in the bottom of my view.

 

[WildBoarHunter]

It is interesting to read how much hunters in UK still use fixed power scopes. Here everyone wants a variable. I guess this is because of many types of hunting here including driven hunting where low mag is a must.

 

[Heym SR20]

It is interesting to read how much hunters in UK still use fixed power scopes. Here everyone wants a variable. I guess this is because of many types of hunting here including driven hunting where low mag is a must.

Driven hunting is not just about low magnification its also about a wide field of view. For this you really need a 20mm objective lense with a 1x magnification.

The 1.5-6x42 or the more modern 1.5-10x42 are a compromise with the low end still quite a narrow field of view compared to the1-4x20 scopes.

The beauty of the older 4x32 and 6x42 is the wide field of view. Truth be told I have several running boar and deer with the fixed 6x42 scope on my 7x65R.

 

[6.5-06 TIKKA]

My go to compromise with weight and practically is the Swarovski PV 6-24×50......
I like them and have 3 and a S+B 8x56.....all for hunting and others for range work.

 

[Karhumies]

It is interesting to read how much hunters in UK still use fixed power scopes. Here everyone wants a variable. I guess this is because of many types of hunting here including driven hunting where low mag is a must

For driven hunts i have a Vepr RPK with a 1-6x24 with iluminated dot. at 1x i use it as a reflex sight with extra functionality.

I wouldnt mind a variable IF it is at least as clear as my fixed power or better. And thats where budget comes in as well. When spending 500 on a scope i dont think there is anything that competes with a used fixed power.

 

[welshwarrior]

It’s quite personal I prefer S&B to Swarovski or Ziess a good friend prefer Swarovski to S&B, that suited us both he had my Swarovski for his S&B both 8x56 and both now happy.

I’m good back to 8x56 or 6x42s on my rifles and I prefer the simple set up less to distract without twiddle bit.

I’m sure your GPO will be good and hope you enjoy it, nice to see a ‘modern’ non variable scope on the market.

 

[Bowland blades]

That older leupold scope you have can certainly play with all the others you mention you might get instead . Illuminated reticule makes no real help to the shooter .
6x42 , 7x50 , 8x56 all have equal light gathering ability its then about the quality of glass and holding zero . I have never rated illuminated reticles as any advantage and even with the very best ones i did not use the feature . on my higher mag scopes they spend 95% of their working life on 6x. Head shooting bunnies is no problem at 100 yards plus with ( 1" 1/2" ) objective
Now if i was shooting F Class 300-1000 yards i would get the exact opposite high mag 25x upwards and 50mm up objective lens