I have still never found venison for sale anywhere which claims to be lead free or doesn't have a warning for lead fragments.. There is no sensible data demonstrating that what the customer wants.has anything to do with the type of ammunition used.What customers actually want is intensively reared meat produced in controlled conditions at low cost.
SGA lead free ammo survey results
- Thread starter palmer_mike
- Start date
This is typical of the pseudo-scientific bull5h1t this guy keeps peddling. Nicotine is neither a large molecule nor a protein, nor would molecules be attached to it by splicing.
I cannot for the life of me understand why there are people who insist that their opinion is derived by "following the science" are so determinedly stubborn in not understanding even schoolboy level science.
The chap quite clearly said he had LOWER than average levels of lead in his blood when tested ? Perhaps you owe him an apology
This may help you
Lead: toxicological overview
I asked the following question of AI
What happens if lead is exposed to gastric acid and how does this affect absorption from the gut?
When lead (Pb) is exposed to gastric acid (primarily hydrochloric acid, HCl), it undergoes chemical reactions that influence its solubility and ultimately its absorption from the gastrointestinal (GI) tract.
1. Chemical Reaction in the StomachGastric acid has a low pH (around 1–3), which allows it to react with metallic lead and lead compounds. Here’s what can happen:
Elemental Lead (Pb⁰):
• Metallic lead is not very reactive, but in the acidic environment of the stomach, it can slowly oxidize and react with hydrochloric acid:
This forms lead(II) chloride (PbCl₂), which is moderately soluble in water, especially in the presence of chloride ions (Cl⁻), enhancing its bioavailability.
Lead Compounds:
• Insoluble lead compounds like lead carbonate (PbCO₃) or lead oxide (PbO) also dissolve in gastric acid, forming soluble lead salts such as lead chloride.
2. Impact on Gastrointestinal AbsorptionOnce soluble lead salts form, their absorption in the gut increases.
• Solubility = Bioavailability: Lead must be in soluble ionic form (Pb²⁺) to cross the intestinal lining.
• Acidic pH Enhances Solubility: The acidic environment helps convert poorly soluble lead forms into absorbable ones.
• Chloride ions in gastric fluid help keep Pb²⁺ in solution as PbCl₂ or more soluble complexes (like PbCl₃⁻).
3. Health Implications• Children absorb lead more efficiently than adults (up to 50% vs. 10–15%) and are more vulnerable to toxicity.
• Fasting or empty stomach increases absorption — low calcium and iron levels can also enhance lead uptake.
Summary Table
Condition Effect on Lead Result
Acidic gastric environment Converts Pb to Pb²⁺ Increases solubility
Presence of Cl⁻ Forms PbCl₂ Improves absorption
Fasting / deficiency states Enhanced uptake Higher blood lead levels
In Short:Lead exposed to gastric acid becomes more soluble (e.g., as PbCl₂), enhancing its absorption from the GI tract and increasing the risk of lead poisoning. This is particularly concerning in children, fasting states, or when there are mineral deficiencies.
Let me know if you’d like to see diagrams or if you’re curious about how chelators or food can influence lead absorption.
Smellydog
Well-Known Member
It doesn't help me at all as not being an idiot I don't advocate eating lead.This may help you
Lead: toxicological overview
www.gov.uk
I asked the following question of AI
What happens if lead is exposed to gastric acid and how does this affect absorption from the gut?
When lead (Pb) is exposed to gastric acid (primarily hydrochloric acid, HCl), it undergoes chemical reactions that influence its solubility and ultimately its absorption from the gastrointestinal (GI) tract.
Gastric acid has a low pH (around 1–3), which allows it to react with metallic lead and lead compounds. Here’s what can happen:
Elemental Lead (Pb⁰):
• Metallic lead is not very reactive, but in the acidic environment of the stomach, it can slowly oxidize and react with hydrochloric acid:
This forms lead(II) chloride (PbCl₂), which is moderately soluble in water, especially in the presence of chloride ions (Cl⁻), enhancing its bioavailability.
Lead Compounds:
• Insoluble lead compounds like lead carbonate (PbCO₃) or lead oxide (PbO) also dissolve in gastric acid, forming soluble lead salts such as lead chloride.
Once soluble lead salts form, their absorption in the gut increases.
• Solubility = Bioavailability: Lead must be in soluble ionic form (Pb²⁺) to cross the intestinal lining.
• Acidic pH Enhances Solubility: The acidic environment helps convert poorly soluble lead forms into absorbable ones.
• Chloride ions in gastric fluid help keep Pb²⁺ in solution as PbCl₂ or more soluble complexes (like PbCl₃⁻).
• Children absorb lead more efficiently than adults (up to 50% vs. 10–15%) and are more vulnerable to toxicity.
• Fasting or empty stomach increases absorption — low calcium and iron levels can also enhance lead uptake.
Summary Table
Condition Effect on Lead Result
Acidic gastric environment Converts Pb to Pb²⁺ Increases solubility
Presence of Cl⁻ Forms PbCl₂ Improves absorption
Fasting / deficiency states Enhanced uptake Higher blood lead levels
Lead exposed to gastric acid becomes more soluble (e.g., as PbCl₂), enhancing its absorption from the GI tract and increasing the risk of lead poisoning. This is particularly concerning in children, fasting states, or when there are mineral deficiencies.
Let me know if you’d like to see diagrams or if you’re curious about how chelators or food can influence lead absorption.
However if some is accidentally eaten in a complete meal it will not be completely dissolved by stomach acid.
The above article is good in as much as it touches on situations limiting and favouring absorption of lead salts.
It however touched on lead metal producing lead oxide in the gut or maybe implying thus. That requires oxygen being present. There is little to no oxygen present in the gut as far as I know and none is produced via stomach acid. Hydrogen gas is produced on a very low production.
The article also is inconclusive in its phrases such as "could" increase "risk".
There is no definite.
It also points out that lead chloride is mildly soluble in water but later refers to it being soluble in the gut. So the next logical question is, by how much is it soluble?
The retort from the anti lead users is always the same, " there is no safe level of lead" but they seem to think consuming and selling tobacco is fine. They also think breathing reactive metals from catalytic converters is fine to. They also don't kick a fuss up over nuclear fall out from nuclear disaster contaminations and so on and so on.
The article mentions poor diet or fasting improves lead intake. So I guess the opposite to that as in a full meal and healthy diet the risk is also minimised.
Going off the history of game killed with lead for hundreds of years, proportionally and relatively, it's not a risk or otherwise there would be a conclusive trail of evidence just like the hat makers of old. A clear definite link to lead oxides severely affecting them. There is no such link to game products to any meaningful conclusive level. We would know by now and there would be no arguing.
What about lead chloride? That is most likely to be produced in the stomach by the action of hydrochloride acid on metallic lead and is still soluble so is absorbed. I don’t think it matters which salt is formed or absorbed, it’s the fact that the salt contains lead that is important.
With regard to the correlation with disease, everyone talks about acute lead poisoning which is to the severe end of the spectrum. What is perhaps much more concerning is the effect of low level heavy metal ingestion such as @Heym SR20 has eluded to.
Leec6.5
Well-Known Member
I think this is hilarious you lot are worse than me! How about this -
Those who want to shoot lead - shoot lead
Those who want to shoot copper or equivalent do that.
That would save and almighty heap of drivel that’s been rolling on for donkeys years.
Even I’m getting too long in the tooth for it
Heym SR20
Well-Known Member
The key research was by Mario Ohanian and her team at the MD Cancer Clinic in Houston, Texas. The key findings in 2020 in the Journal of Haematology. Their research showed a high correlation between those with AML and higher level of heavy metals in their blood, but at a level well below that considered toxic. With lead the average levels are 25 nanomols per litre. In the article they cite considerable other research showing how heavy metals are adsorbed into the body and such metals induce cancers in mice and other research surrogates. These are referenced. This research has carried to new treatments now in clinical trials.
Freeforester
Well-Known Member
Isn’t copper considered a heavy metal?
Smellydog
Well-Known Member
Yes.
How about this -
Those who want to shoot lead - shoot lead
Those who want to shoot copper or equivalent do that.
That would save and almighty heap of drivel that’s been rolling on for donkeys years.
Even I’m getting too long in the tooth for it
I think had the various voices of shooting organisations told the powers that be a big fat no to any suggestion of banning lead we wouldn't be arguing now. Being sold down the river has annoyed some!
Leec6.5
Well-Known Member
It’s all toxic to a certain degree
Freeforester
Well-Known Member
Back to the bow and/or harsh words then!
Leec6.5
Well-Known Member
The bow is and itch I am yet to scratch
Freeforester
Well-Known Member
I give ‘gaelic’ language hunting lessons often, usually to an errant dog, apparently they don’t die quite so readily as the deer!The bow is and itch I am yet to scratch
Smellydog
Well-Known Member
You'll like itThe bow is and itch I am yet to scratch
David Barker
Well-Known Member
So was Rainbow but not in my book
Freeforester
Well-Known Member
And the quicker it is "Since you've been gone" the betterSo was Rainbow but not in my book
Also it Friday
Similar threads
