Is the Deer Act out of Date? (for England)

[Tim.243]

It seems everything equipment wise has moved on leaps and bounds with every bit of kit, training, funding, chillers, home business, stalking forums, outfitters,
people eating venison, syndicate's, drone survey's, most of the above in the last 10 years, the main stream internet is nothing like is was in 1983 (yes it was started in 1969)
Crops, tree planting, deer fencing, farming practice's and kit are off the scale
Top of the range in 1963/2025
More deer (in many places) than ever before yet the deer act has not kept up with an evolving deer population
Anyone using their 1963 Cortina for stalking lol

 

[VSS]

Probably is due for an update, but trouble is so many different organisations would want input into the redraft that we'd probably end up with something less suited to purpose than what we've got now.
Probably best left well alone, with a blind eye turned to a bit of rule bending here and there.

 

[Tim.243]

Probably is due for an update, but trouble is so many different organisations would want input into the redraft that we'd probably end up with something less suited to purpose than what we've got now.
Probably best left well alone, with a blind eye turned to a bit of rule bending here and there.

Then we have too many crooks cooks spoiling the broth

 

[VSS]

Then we have too many cooks spoiling the broth

Well I've got no intention of letting them spoil my broth! It'll be business as usual, under the radar if neccessary.

 

[shbangsteve]

If anyone thinks this current shower of politicians would modify the Deer act or any other rural act to make it better they are completely mad.
Best keep quiet.

 

[Tim.243]

If anyone thinks this current shower of politicians would modify the Deer act or any other rural act to make it better they are completely mad.
Best keep quiet.

Yet it was changed it in Scotland (by someone lol)

 

[Chris Richardson]

I’d love to see .22 centrefires allowed for roe in England as they are in Scotland absolutely crazy that they’re not

 

[3595wilk]

Deer and Firearms Act are both in need of a serious overhaul.

The DeFRA deer strategy consultation took place back in 2022....... and disappeared into the ether.....

Shouldn't take 3 years to publish it's results...... maybe @Conor O'Gorman maybe has an idea on what is going on with that?

The 2023 Environmental Improvement Plan didn't AFAIK, mention deer specifically either.

So nowt from DeFRA in potential changes (that are needed) under the previous or current governments.... as not priorities...... so unlikely to see any changes soon.

 

[Tim.243]

Deer and Firearms Act are both in need of a serious overhaul.

The DeFRA deer strategy consultation took place back in 2022....... and disappeared into the ether.....

Shouldn't take 3 years to publish it's results...... maybe @Conor O'Gorman maybe has an idea on what is going on with that?

The 2023 Environmental Improvement Plan didn't AFAIK, mention deer specifically either.

So nowt from DeFRA in potential changes (that are needed) under the previous or current governments.... as not priorities...... so unlikely to see any changes soon.

As I said when the 63 act came in it has stood still since then with everything moving fwd at pace with the deer population we have now compared to 1963. If it was fit for purpose back then then it is not now otherwise we would not have so many deer!
Weather/seasons I should have added as I have a picture of the snow in the garden from 1963 at 3ft compared to the 1" we had lol
OSR helped the pigeon population from the 70's is a good example of growth to survive.

 

[artschool]

but what bit actually needs changing?

 

[3595wilk]

Practically .....

A duty on land owners to manage deer effectively
Simplification of night shooting application
Calibre changes for certain species

are good starters....

The consultation went further and asked:

Sustainable Deer Numbers: how to bring deer populations to levels the ecosystem can support without negative effects.

Environmental Impacts: Reducing damage to woodlands, crops, and natural environments caused by deer. See practical steps above

Legislation and Regulation: Reviewing and amending current laws and regulations that act as barriers to effective deer management. Ditto.

Incentives: Introducing or improving incentives to encourage effective deer management. Absolutely key.

Capacity and Skills: Developing the skills, training, and markets within the deer management sector. As long as we don't go down the NatureScot route.....

Non-Native Species: Minimising the impacts of non-native deer species.
Legal Status of Enclosed Deer: Clarifying the legal status of deer in parks or private collections to ensure animal health and food safety.

.... so not much needs potentially changing really.......

 

[Tim.243]

but what bit actually needs changing?

That is why I posted it to see what people think needs changing
A question to yourself, why are there so many deer in "England" also are you shooting many deer per year?

 

[Heym SR20]

The Deer Act doesn’t need modifying.

What is needed

1) really good research into deer numbers, ecology etc

2) joined up thinking in managing deer as a sustainable resource rather than as a pest.

3) we need think carefully about how we actually achieve culls and look at what happens elsewhere. I really don’t think longer seasons / night licenses etc are the answer. I think driven hunts in the winter time where you achieve 50% of the cull in one or two days and then leave the deer alone probably are. Especially for woodland and areas where there are numbers of the general public - close it for two or three days, do the cull. Open it up again.

We seem to be able to organise driven phaesant shooting quite well, no reason (other than its not happened here before) why it shouldn’t happen with deer. In the past Roe deer numbers were managed on Roe drives with deer driven to shotguns.

 

[Tim.243]

The Deer Act doesn’t need modifying.

What is needed

1) really good research into deer numbers, ecology etc

2) joined up thinking in managing deer as a sustainable resource rather than as a pest.

3) we need think carefully about how we actually achieve culls and look at what happens elsewhere. I really don’t think longer seasons / night licenses etc are the answer. I think driven hunts in the winter time where you achieve 50% of the cull in one or two days and then leave the deer alone probably are. Especially for woodland and areas where there are numbers of the general public - close it for two or three days, do the cull. Open it up again.

We seem to be able to organise driven phaesant shooting quite well, no reason (other than its not happened here before) why it shouldn’t happen with deer. In the past Roe deer numbers were managed on Roe drives with deer driven to shotguns.

They are shot for a sustainable resource at the moment as an example (males) are left 1-2-3 years more to develop as a resource of the "head" with the invoice being the result from the leaving in that time.
A few answers but no one has given the reason "why" there are so many deer, mine is because our hands are tied into the limitation of what we can do.

 

[Nickb]

Female season should be extended and males shot all year.

Night shooting made legal and also the Government should pay a bounty on each deers head , numbers shot will increase drastically.

 

[Mike1979]

Issues:

Common sense of a Govt who are anti shooting
Lots of mixed land owners and many who may not agree with shooting
Mixed income streams for landowners from stalking (trophies = income)
What do we do with all this extra venison

Not simple and very unlikely to be high priority on any Govts agenda ... just my thoughts

 

[Nickb]

What do we do with all this extra venison

Go into dog food or feeding illegal immigrants

 

[Mike1979]

Go into dog food or feeding illegal immigrants

You had to pitch in didn't you

Just highlighting the point that huge efforts have been made to increase the appeal of venison to the wider public with limited impact. I suppose if the suggestion to pay a bounty on deer covers that then giving the carcass to a dog food supplier may be easier to stomach.

All conjecture as f**k all will happen anyway

 

[Nickb]

All conjecture as f**k all will happen anyway

I know that

We will just continue as normal but probably with tighter regulation.

 

[Apthorpe]

The deer population is not increasing because of inadequate legislation. It might be because of people shooting too many foxes though.