Tips on driven days. What say you on SD?

[Dalua]

I think tipping in the sporting context has its origin, I think, in the worthy practice of a guest tipping the staff of his host to show appreciation for the services rendered to him, as a guest, by them though their employer is actually the one whom they are paid to serve.
Hence, a guest staying at someone's house to shoot would on this principle tip the domestic staff, as well as the 'keeper, to thank them for the extra effort they had expended as result of his visit.

I've no problem extending this to tipping the stalker and ghillie if I am a (paying, usually) guest on an estate - but one does start to wonder in the caseof a stalking guide or a commercial shoot, with whom you and/or your team have made a contract for the sport. Under the latter circumstance, I think that if a 'tip' (though I'd suggest this is not really what it is under these circs) is actually expected, this (and the amount) should be made clear before the contract is agreed - to avoid social and/or financial embarrassment to the Guns/Rifles and disappointment to the providers.

 

[weblyish]

Did you enjoy your day?

Still to come, but i enjoy every day

 

[HonestJohn]

Got invited as a guest this year and in between the non lead, trained dogs welcome etc info...

It is anticipated you will need £240 in cash on the day, £100 for your loader, £120 for the keeper and £20 for the sweep.

Ouch

The estate should pay that and factor into the cost of the shoot. Bet zero £’s are declared for tax, and then some of the receivers are possibly on here meaning about benefit seekers abusing the system

 

[weblyish]

The estate should pay that and factor into the cost of the shoot. Bet zero £’s are declared for tax, and then some of the receivers are possibly on here meaning about benefit seekers abusing the system

What I don't like is being told how much is the right amount

If I have a nice loader and see plenty of birds do I stick a bit on top to say thanks?
And what if it's a bit of a poor show? What then.


Then the other part of me quite likes being told what's about right

 

[tackb]

Got invited as a guest this year and in between the non lead, trained dogs welcome etc info...

It is anticipated you will need £240 in cash on the day, £100 for your loader, £120 for the keeper and £20 for the sweep.

Ouch

i'm gonna guess it's a fairly big day if you're having a loader?

i've been a guest on days i could not afford , but i could afford to tip well.

enjoy the day , let us know how it goes?

 

[Rhodesianjess]

Being in the same place as@ratel, over the years I've been tipped by all sorts of people. Quite a few times by the Hooray Henry type, peeling notes off a roll big enough to choke my Labrador with, making sure all his mates can see what he's doing.
The other extreme, the tip folded up tightly and hidden under the thumb of the proferred hand, the genuine heartfelt words of thanks for the day's sport, often citing a particular bird shot on a specific drive.
Of the two types, the modest man always wins and is certainly welcomed back on future visits to the estate. Personally I've been guilty of extremes too. I once refused to tip a keeper on a commercial shoot due to his attitude. He gave the impression that he had better places to be, better things to be doing than giving the guns the day that they'd paid for. I was someone's guest I must add, my host and several other guns also refused to tip.
On the other hand I was invited guest on a farm shoot with a late teenaged part time keeper who put down as many birds as my boss shoots in a day. The kid ran himself ragged to put a good day on for us. When I tipped him,he looked at it and told me " That's more than I get in monthly wages". Told him he'd earned it and I appreciated all his efforts especially considering he knows where I work so often all the guests here today, I more clued up than most!
That young man still keepers there, I've been invited to help him picking up etc on many subsequent days and we are firm friends.
Tips are personal expression of your enjoyment of your day so go with your conscience, you won't go far wrong IMO.

 

[Pelyma]

Being in the same place as@ratel, over the years I've been tipped by all sorts of people. Quite a few times by the Hooray Henry type, peeling notes off a roll big enough to choke my Labrador with, making sure all his mates can see what he's doing.
The other extreme, the tip folded up tightly and hidden under the thumb of the proferred hand, the genuine heartfelt words of thanks for the day's sport, often citing a particular bird shot on a specific drive.
Of the two types, the modest man always wins and is certainly welcomed back on future visits to the estate. Personally I've been guilty of extremes too. I once refused to tip a keeper on a commercial shoot due to his attitude. He gave the impression that he had better places to be, better things to be doing than giving the guns the day that they'd paid for. I was someone's guest I must add, my host and several other guns also refused to tip.
On the other hand I was invited guest on a farm shoot with a late teenaged part time keeper who put down as many birds as my boss shoots in a day. The kid ran himself ragged to put a good day on for us. When I tipped him,he looked at it and told me " That's more than I get in monthly wages". Told him he'd earned it and I appreciated all his efforts especially considering he knows where I work so often all the guests here today, I more clued up than most!
That young man still keepers there, I've been invited to help him picking up etc on many subsequent days and we are firm friends.
Tips are personal expression of your enjoyment of your day so go with your conscience, you won't go far wrong IMO.

100% agree.

 

[Cootmeurer]

I hate this tipping disease

It is most common amongst our US brethren

You pay for a service

You receive that service

You say thanks and move on

J

PS

Equally I hate bartering

You are offered something for a price, you either think it is worth it or you move on

I’ve no time for silly games of one-upmanship

Life is too short

I too hate tips and it really has gotten out of hand in the US. Once it was 10% with slightly more for exceptional service. Now they expect 20% and that is calculated after taxes are added to the bill. It has really turned a lot of us off from dining out at all.

As to barter - I view that through a country specific set of lenses. In some places failing to barter is rude and arrogant. Many of the Caribbean islands I was on - away from the touristy bits, expected and actually enjoyed the barter process. I enjoyed it as well.

 

[chriswjx]

Got invited as a guest this year and in between the non lead, trained dogs welcome etc info...

It is anticipated you will need £240 in cash on the day, £100 for your loader, £120 for the keeper and £20 for the sweep.

Ouch

So I can't speak for the estate you are shooting on, but the majority of estates I've loaded on, the loaders are not paid by the estate (even when organised by the estate rather than a sporting agent). This included a series of days with a very small team shooting a very large bag (where you'd think it'd be easy enough to tack on the loader's wage, much like the beaters').

The £100 isn't rightly a "tip" but the loader's wage in this case. Should you have enjoyed my company, and felt like I did a good job at keeping you on the birds etc, you are more than welcome to add to the handshake.

I guess as a loader is considered an optional extra that you are able to decline - I shoot with someone who will regularly single gun, and load his own gun, on very sizeable days, because he personally doesn't want to have a loader.

Would end though by saying it does also depend on how the estate sold the day - as there's been days where I have been paid directly by the estate, and then been fortunate enough to receive a few extra notes as a personal thank you from the gun, who appreciated my company and bit of coaching (or like the time when we double gunned instead of single like the rest of the line - on a simulated day).

 

[Liveonce]

sounds like it’s totally out of control, loaders, beaters, shoot captains should be paid and the pay included in the price for the day shooting.

tin hat on.

 

[Apthorpe]

What I don't like is being told how much is the right amount

If I have a nice loader and see plenty of birds do I stick a bit on top to say thanks?
And what if it's a bit of a poor show? What then.


Then the other part of me quite likes being told what's about right

Yes, but that's when you ask your host what is appropriate...being told is objectionable.

 

[Liveonce]

weblyish said:
What I don't like is being told how much is the right amount

If I have a nice loader and see plenty of birds do I stick a bit on top to say thanks?
And what if it's a bit of a poor show? What then.


did the nice loader make the birds fly your way?
if a poor show, ask for a tip to you from the loader for being nice.

 

[chriswjx]

sounds like it’s totally out of control, loaders, beaters, shoot captains should be paid and the pay included in the price for the day shooting.

tin hat on.

Honestly as an estate loader I'd prefer that.

 

[Scarpa]

I've only ever been on one driven day, it was a low bird local day (40 all day expected) at £125 but I paid a little extra for an evening duck flight. I told the keeper that it was my first and said that if he wanted to give me any guidance I'd appreciate it. For the first drive I was put out on the bottom of a steep drop where I could see the birds before they were in range I got two and my nervousness vanished. Lunch was at a big estate hotel and to be fair as a youngsters I didn't have much in common with the other shooters. As it went on I went out and ended up sitting with the beaters and keeper having a good natter. At the end I tipped him £20 quietly, it was seriously a lot of money to me at that time. When it came time to give out the honorary braces he said that lots of them declined as they didn't want unprepared birds and asked if I wanted a few extra, I bit his hand off A while later I got an invite for a low key walked up grouse day, unfortunately I couldn't afford it even though it was extremely cheap but I really appreciated the gesture. As said before, genuine appreciation is highly valued, its the same with ski instructors who put a lot of effort into making a day special.