.243 to .223, purely for fox 🤔

[seedawood]

Would you be able to provide a link for the UK evidence please

Why? Do you really think that environmental bodies are going to ignore studies just because they are from California? Do you really think that any UK government is going to turn down any opportunity to win a few cheap 'Greenie points' at our expense?
Wake up and smell the vegan latte, to any government WE are a low vote, low value minority. It is time that we learned that sitting around wingeing about change doesn't make a difference, to maintain any sort of voice, and any sort of respect, in debates that will effect all of our future sport or livelihoods we need to prove that we are capable of doing whatever is necessary to minimise our impact on the environment that we are dependant upon for our sport.

 

[Chris Richardson]

Why? Do you really think that environmental bodies are going to ignore studies just because they are from California? Do you really think that any UK government is going to turn down any opportunity to win a few cheap 'Greenie points' at our expense?
Wake up and smell the vegan latte, to any government WE are a low vote, low value minority. It is time that we learned that sitting around wingeing about change doesn't make a difference, to maintain any sort of voice, and any sort of respect, in debates that will effect all of our future sport or livelihoods we need to prove that we are capable of doing whatever is necessary to minimise our impact on the environment that we are dependant upon for our sport.

I’d still love to know why raptor numbers are at an all time high on estates using lead shot

 

[Kalahari]

I’d still love to know why raptor numbers are at an all time high on rates using lead shot

Me too. I would also like to know where they find and exactly which labs (and no genuine study uses only one lab) they use for raptors and all the wildfowl which people like Packham quote in spite of the long term ban on lead for wildfowling.

David.

 

[Smellydog]

My place I shoot over now has goshawks breeding every year and another local estate has a pair. Buzzards out number crows. Merlin, hobby and peregrine pass through. Sparrow hawks everywhere.
Fabricated bollocks is the tech term.

 

[seedawood]

I’d still love to know why raptor numbers are at an all time high on estates using lead shot

Simple. Good keepering, good husbandry and all the other good things that come from well managed shooting estates that the press won't report all the time they are concentrating on 'shock horror' stories based on one person being suspected of doing something stupid or illegal.
That, and the fact that the Goshawks have been fattening up on my chickens...

 

[Bowland blades]

Morning all,

I'm looking for feedback from anyone using the .223 for foxing on open ground pushing out to 250–300 yards (not always possible to get closer/engineer a shot)

I currently use a .243 with 75gr V-MAX, which is a hammer on foxes. However, with the HSE lead ban looming for calibers over 6.17mm, I’m considering a move to .223 to stay lead-legal for vermin without the headache.

Other drivers for the switch:

• NV White-out: My .243 flash blinds my Alpex 4K for a second, making it hard to spot impacts, is the .223 better in this regard???
• Frugality: Cheaper to run for high-volume nights and less wear on the barrel. (Handload the .243 for deer with copper. But not for foxing)
• Signature: Looking for a lower muzzle report and less recoil to stay on target, especially when I have multiple foxes out.

My concerns:
The Welsh hills aren't known for being still. How does the .223 compare to the 6mm for knockdown and wind drift at those 300-yard boundaries? Are you finding it "enough" gun when the weather isn't playing ball?

I am completely happy with the .243 for smaller deer and I have a fantastic TTSX load for that purpose!

I am also happy that I have a perfectly justifiable reason to aquire if I go down this route! And will be putting in for "All lawful quarry" as per all my other rifles. Just added a further 2 sheep farms to the permission for pre lambing thin out and continued overwatch during!

Cheers in advance for any insights.

.223 at 250-300 is a fair push when the wind plays its hand ! Nice weather , and uneducated foxes though and a competent shot comes into things but i tend to use 243 or greater where i am up in the open hills . The 100 grain tTSX in .243 80grain and 6.5 100 grain over the .223 or .22 hornet i use waiting near fox holes.

 

[Pellet Pinger]

If you shoot a fox with a lead bullet, chances are that you will leave where it will then be consumed by birds of prey and other wildlife.

What do they say about assuming things? for all you know he could be taking them home and eating them himself!

 

[Greenmist]

Why? Do you really think that environmental bodies are going to ignore studies just because they are from California? Do you really think that any UK government is going to turn down any opportunity to win a few cheap 'Greenie points' at our expense?
Wake up and smell the vegan latte, to any government WE are a low vote, low value minority. It is time that we learned that sitting around wingeing about change doesn't make a difference, to maintain any sort of voice, and any sort of respect, in debates that will effect all of our future sport or livelihoods we need to prove that we are capable of doing whatever is necessary to minimise our impact on the environment that we are dependant upon for our sport.

Because I want to read it and see where the study was done and by who, I don't need to wake up and smell anything
For example the professor who carried out the study for the university of cambridge, is the research scientist for the rspb, the study also covers europe not just the UK, I'd like to read the methodology of how the study was done and more importantly, the UK sites that were studied and could any other reasons exist for any decline, eg heavy industry or landfill sites, the argument that if we stop using lead, raptors will increase is interesting as when lead was banned for wetlands I don't remember an massive increase in wildfowl, perhaps other factors are involved such as quality and availability of food, so that essentially ,is why

 

[Chris Richardson]

Simple. Good keepering, good husbandry and all the other good things that come from well managed shooting estates that the press won't report all the time they are concentrating on 'shock horror' stories based on one person being suspected of doing something stupid or illegal.
That, and the fact that the Goshawks have been fattening up on my chickens...

so basically youre saying lead shot really isnt an issue ? spot on lets carry on as we are then and not play into their hands

 

[7Miller]

I use my 7mm-08 for everything, but with the lead ban, it gave me a perfect excuse to buy a new rifle for fox shooting. One the offers good BC for windier conditions!
So I went with the 22 Creedmoor.
So I will Handload copper for 7mm-08 and lead for the 22 CM.

 

[farrieral]

I use my 7mm-08 for everything, but with the lead ban, it gave me a perfect excuse to buy a new rifle for fox shooting. One the offers good BC for windier conditions!
So I went with the 22 Creedmoor.
So I will Handload copper for 7mm-08 and lead for the 22 CM.

Now Sir, that is a chambering I had not thought of, but now I've looked at its capabilities its one to look at!

Also, a few comments above re copper.... I am pro copper, I shoot all my deer with copper, and happy to pay the £1+ per bang... but perhaps not so willing for foxes, and also not sold that copper will expand enough on small bodied vermin.

 

[farrieral]

Also, the .243 has put 3 more on the tally sheet tonight

 

[7Miller]

Now Sir, that is a chambering I had not thought of, but now I've looked at its capabilities its one to look at!

Also, a few comments above re copper.... I am pro copper, I shoot all my deer with copper, and happy to pay the £1+ per bang... but perhaps not so willing for foxes, and also not sold that copper will expand enough on small bodied vermin.

Likewise.
I was going to go 22-250 BUT I fancied something different, still fast but carrying plenty of energy at range, hence the 22 Creedmoor.
It's going to be fun this spring and summer I'm sure

 

[Smellydog]

All the foxes I shoot and not one of them has been consumed by a bird of prey.
Anyone saying the birds of prey eat fox is wrong.
Most birds leave them alone.


Next they will be saying the lead on my roof and theirs is harming wildlife and the roof has to come down despite there being no actual proof just theoretical bull**** FFS, talk about the enemy within!
Only last year the idiot had photos of his lead lined vice jaws and used lead cored bullets in a rifle he built up! You couldn't make it up!
Oh and let's not forget he enjoys a fat pension from the tobacco industry.
Opinion null and void I think!

 

[RH Somerset]

On the point of whiteout in night vision - this can be mitigated by reloading. If using a fast enough powder, so all the powder is burnt inside the barrel, there should be no whiteout.

 

[Sika98k]

All the foxes I shoot and not one of them has been consumed by a bird of prey.
Anyone saying the birds of prey eat fox is wrong.
Most birds leave them alone.


Next they will be saying the lead on my roof and theirs is harming wildlife and the roof has to come down despite there being no actual proof just theoretical bull**** FFS, talk about the enemy within!
Only last year the idiot had photos of his lead lined vice jaws and used lead cored bullets in a rifle he built up! You couldn't make it up!
Oh and let's not forget he enjoys a fat pension from the tobacco industry.
Opinion null and void I think!

I hate to contradict you but Irish buzzards eat dead foxes ! And they have for years. They also eat the pigeons I leave out for them for diversionary feeding when my poults are wee ones.

 

[Bowland blades]

On the point of whiteout in night vision - this can be mitigated by reloading. If using a fast enough powder, so all the powder is burnt inside the barrel, there should be no whiteout.

faster powders are also can be risk

 

[Sniper308]

I have a .223 and shoot 53g vmax. Shot out to 302 yards and never had a single runner yet. Even at 302 yards the bullet passed through the fox. Plenty of power

 

[Smellydog]

I hate to contradict you but Irish buzzards eat dead foxes ! And they have for years. They also eat the pigeons I leave out for them for diversionary feeding when my poults are wee ones.

And is the population in decline?

 

[RCS Deer Management]

All the foxes I shoot and not one of them has been consumed by a bird of prey.
Anyone saying the birds of prey eat fox is wrong.
Most birds leave them alone.

Ravens love eating fox